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Tax .

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Frontstep, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. OP
    Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    Who can blame an individual for wanting more money, its not exactly an alien concept.
    Our tax system is incredibly complex as it bends over backwards to be "fair"
    Any simple system creates winners and losers and many would end up in the Courts.
    If you have trouble sleeping try reading some of the leading cases on Tax Law.
     
  2. Smeagol

    Smeagol Senior Member

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    [QUOTE

    Also UK domiciles pay UK tax on the world wide income anyway.[/QUOTE]

    I think you are wrong in the above statement. One does not pay UK tax if one is non-resident in the UK (as I was for a number of years for several different periods). Quite simple to become non-resident, just stay out of the UK for the required period of time and do not exceed the time allowed back.

    Domicile is different and very difficult to change., but has has little to do with paying tax...or not. I have always been domiciled in the UK but did not pay UK tax for most of the years I was resident elsewhere.
     
  3. Frosty149

    Frosty149 Senior Member

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    So, you need some new tyres, £200 a pair at the outlet.
    You go down and the boss says “I can let you have them for £170 cash”
    Obviously your not going to defraud HMRC? :rolleyes:

    Or your window cleaner, he takes a credit card, doesn’t he? :eek:
     
  4. Uncle Benz

    Uncle Benz Senior Member

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    To be brutally honest, you will struggle to find a tyre place that will do that for you in this day and age. If you find one, please let me have his details ;-)

    Window cleaners may still be a different story, but mine insists on online payment. No other option!
     
  5. Frosty149

    Frosty149 Senior Member

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    The point I was making was that we often moralise about the tax affairs of big business or the mega rich, but we are often just as culpable in a smaller way!
    Perhaps my examples were not the best...
     
  6. Uncle Benz

    Uncle Benz Senior Member

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    I appreciate the point you were making, but personally I think the tax dodging for the common man is becoming a smaller thing as time goes by. Increasingly our money is being monitored. Cash is becoming more of a burden. My bank won't let me pay any cash in under my current terms of business agreement, so I discourage my customers from paying me this way. Shop loyalty cards I'm sure are also used to watch what we spend. Even if you pay cash at tesco I'm sure you present your club card for points. Big brother is watching ;) All the time tax dodging for the common man is becoming more and more difficult, whilst tax avoidance for the mega Rich becomes a bigger and bigger business.

    I used to have some customers who liked to pay cash, always with fifty pound notes. I used to write a cheque to the business and spend the cash on the weekly shop at Waitrose in Worthing because of my banking agreement. The checkout staff would always need a second pair of eyes to check the notes, but that wasn't a problem it seemed. I had a bit of a reputation, "oh, it's the £50 note man..." Until one day, after several months the manager appeared and politely said to me not to bring any more fifties into the store. I asked what the problem was, as I knew they were genuine notes. He couldn't give me an answer, just said he didn't want them any more. I was so stunned I didn't know what to say. Never been back. I'm not making this up!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
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  7. Frosty149

    Frosty149 Senior Member

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    Having worked for HMRC (as a subcontractor) for several years, I can say with some confidence that they have painfully few resources to investigate ‘small time’ tax evasion - small time runs to 5 & often 6 zeros these days...
    However, when they investigate, they are unbelievably thorough and cost is then, not an obstacle!
     
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  8. towat

    towat Senior Member

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    I think you are wrong in the above statement. One does not pay UK tax if one is non-resident in the UK (as I was for a number of years for several different periods). Quite simple to become non-resident, just stay out of the UK for the required period of time and do not exceed the time allowed back.

    Domicile is different and very difficult to change., but has has little to do with paying tax...or not. I have always been domiciled in the UK but did not pay UK tax for most of the years I was resident elsewhere.[/QUOTE]

    The rules surrounding Residence and Domicile are far too complex to go into here, there did used to be a dispensation for people working abroad but that was quietly abolished in the mid 90's by Gordon Brown, I remember dealing with quite a few irate overseas clients at the time, and it never covered investment or property income anyway.

    Suffice to say if you are UK Domiciled and resident then you have to declare all overseas income on your self assessment and pay tax subject to any double tax agreements with the relevant countries, if you don't declare it then that is evasion and a separate issue entirely.
     
  9. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

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    Anti-laundering policy most likely, once you're known to exceed a certain threshold............
     
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  10. keefysher

    keefysher Senior Member

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    The rules surrounding Residence and Domicile are far too complex to go into here, there did used to be a dispensation for people working abroad but that was quietly abolished in the mid 90's by Gordon Brown, I remember dealing with quite a few irate overseas clients at the time, and it never covered investment or property income anyway.

    Suffice to say if you are UK Domiciled and resident then you have to declare all overseas income on your self assessment and pay tax subject to any double tax agreements with the relevant countries, if you don't declare it then that is evasion and a separate issue entirely.[/QUOTE]

    Back in the days of global business where you worked overseas to earn for UK PLC there were 'rewards' for want of a better word, all fully legitimate that those doing that type of work saw as a 'benefit' for being away for extremely long periods, often in difficult conditions. Mostly been withdrawn these days. And the idiots in HMG wonder why we have low productivity, skills shortages, an economy based on the price of houses and retail, with a race to the bottom.

    Yes, there were loopholes, but few and far between and more effort than reward.

    The decline started when it changed from 1 year to the Apr-Apr tax year, then percent of time out vs in, but the travel out day was counted as a whole even if in my case most flights out were very last thing at night and the time in started at 00:01 the day of travel start back. There needs to be some carrot, not all stick.
     
  11. Smeagol

    Smeagol Senior Member

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    towat

    You are correct in saying, "Suffice to say if you are UK Domiciled and resident then you have to declare all overseas income on your self assessment and pay tax subject to any double tax agreements with the relevant countries.....", however you originally stated "Also UK domiciles pay UK tax on the world wide income anyway". Your first statement made no mention of residence, only domicile, and that was what I was challenging. I repeat, that by being non-resident in the UK one is not liable for UK tax on income earned overseas.

    I worked for many years in countries with no personal taxation and, quite legally, paid no UK tax on those earnings as I was non-resident. I was, however, domiciled in the UK from birth.
     
  12. OP
    Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    I started to draw a few thousand pounds out of my Bank last week, 14 minutes later ( I was clock watching because of parking ) I left.
    The teller I had known for years and I have banked with them for decades but fair enough some of the questions were reasonable to deal with fraud etc, "has anyone approached you " befriended over internet etc" we then went on to what was the money for ?
    and on and on, it became a bit tedious when a supervisor had to ok the withdrawal and was busy.
    So at the open plan desk quite an audience had built up listening to all this and some of the comments were priceless "he's just trying to get his own money out" to I bet he's a drug dealer .

    I wasn't impressed.
     
  13. Big Cheese

    Big Cheese Senior Member

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    These are the joys of the money laundering regulations that are coming into force.
    I can understand to a certain extent but when it becomes a twenty question farce to get your own money out the bank it becomes past a joke.
     
  14. Frosty149

    Frosty149 Senior Member

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    I like the idea put forward by a mate paying at a busy supermarket, when presented with the total for his shop he produced 3x £50 notes, to which the assistant calls a senior staff member who checks each note carefully, much to the disgruntlement of the que waiting.
    On receipt of his change he asks the senior member to please check the notes he’s received, just as she did with his notes prior,
    “That’s not necessary our notes are genuine sir”, to which my mate comments “you didn’t trust me, why should I trust you?”
     
  15. OP
    Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    A supermarket that trusts all its customers would soon be bankrupt.
    Joe public has quite a few scammers in its midst.
     
  16. curious

    curious Senior Member

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    An ISA is a tax avoidance scheme. How many of us have one of those?
    If you don't like the avoidance schemes that others use, then make them illegal, make it evasion.
    Don't whinge on about the morals of it all, concern yourselves with the legality of the system.
     
  17. curious

    curious Senior Member

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    I don't have the patience for cash machines and do as you have done regularly. I have no issue with certain questions when withdrawing my already cleared funds but do have an issue with the question of what I want the money for. I politely inform them that I don't wish to disclose that and usually that is satisfactory.
    However, one time the local NatWest branch manager tried to flex her muscles with me on this one and backed herself into a corner she wasn't prepared to back down from. Made up all sorts of rubbish about money laundering (should have seen her face when I informed her I was an investment banker and probably knew more than she did about these things). As I said, she didn't back down. NatWest offered me £250 in compensation for the argument, a written apology from her and her to undergo retraining!
    (She had since left that branch when I next went in for a top-up!)
     
  18. Uncle Benz

    Uncle Benz Senior Member

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    I've got a bank tale too! They threatened to call the police!!
    Recently the bank (Natwest) have installed a lot of self-service machines, but I prefer a face to face encounter with another human... I had some paying in, one window open, six or seven closed windows. I joined the queue, about six people at the time. A jolly looking assistant appeared and starting at the front of the queue offered to help each person in turn at the newly installed self-service machines. Every single person in the queue politely declined and said they were happy to wait, me included. More people joined the queue and noddy reached the end, returned to the front and started offering the same people again with help at the machines.... You know where this is going! At the fourth time of being asked I again politely declined and suggested that perhaps his time might be better spent opening another window. He disappeared, and I thought I had succeeded in actually getting things moving. Imagine my surprise when the manageress appeared and told me I had been observed abusing the staff, abuse would not be tolerated, and unless I left the premises immediately the police would be called.
     
  19. curious

    curious Senior Member

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    I'd regard the second time of asking as harassment, let alone the fourth!!!!!!

    (Mine was resolved after emailing the CEO whose office provided me with their direct line. I was so looking forward to round two!)
     
  20. Xtractorfan

    Xtractorfan Senior Member

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    An Investment Banker ..probably why she suspected you in the first place .lol ha
     

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