The future of diesel?

[rolfy]

I've been running a W203 C220 CDI Coupe for 6 years. 45k on the clock when I bought it. Now over 135k and still going strong.

Sadly it's a real rot-box and we've decided enough is enough and it's time to get a newer, tidier version.

Ideally it would be a straight swap for an 09 or 10 reg as I love the bomb-proof CDI engine. The thing that worries me is all the negative publicity about diesel and cities talking about congestion-charge premiums and outright diesel bans.

So 2 questions really - what do people here think about the future for diesel and what is the considered opinion of the CLC/CLK petrol engines. I've heard that only the higher BHP 1.8ltr *** 200K is really worth buying - the others being sadly underpowered.

Would really appreciate your comments.

Cheers

 

[Craiglxviii]

In terms of car sales in general the trend is towards small, turbo petrol engines (in the wake of the VW Emissions scandal). In real terms diesel has both pros and cons, tech is being developed to combat the fines particulates emissions and that is its current major stumbling block. That and it's fallen out of flavour for this decade.

 

[Botus]

So 2 questions really - what do people here think about the future for diesel
Cheers

There is no future for diesels... its outrageous that we continue to accept people even starting them. Death comes out the exhaust and we've all been complicit. Governments and Manufactures have known this for more than 15 years yet chose to do NOTHING about it.

Only now with Oil starting to run low and Electric powered cars becoming more and more viable have brave a few governments murmured its time to consider killing diesels.

As individuals we should grow a pair and stop killing people with the filth that comes out. The Black soot you can see coming out is little better than instant death.

 

[davemercedes]

In terms of car sales in general the trend is towards small, turbo petrol engines (in the wake of the VW Emissions scandal). In real terms diesel has both pros and cons, tech is being developed to combat the fines particulates emissions and that is its current major stumbling block. That and it's fallen out of flavour for this decade.

And it fell out of flavour due to the VW lies - our own government were promoting diesel about 15 years ago - they even allowed a decent (lower) differential on the litre price versus petrol. But only this week the big news announced is that many cities here and in EU are going to ban "dirty" diesel vehicles under the 'elf and safety banner.

I love my S203 to bits - it's fast enough for me to kill myself any day but economic, comfortable and has a street presence. If I was to change now it would have to be to petrol - as Craig says I'd probably have to look at a smaller turbo petrol job.

 

[AMck]

I'd probably have to look at a smaller turbo petrol job.

Or a nice big naturally aspirated LPG converted petrol engine

 

[mikestrivens]

It would help if the road fund tax was harmonised between petrol and diesel vehicles. They both pollute, just with different emissions.

 

[forrester]

So what will the HGV's run on?

 

[John Laidlaw]

So what will the HGV's run on?

CNG in the fullness of time

 

[Alex240]

I hope it doesn't have a future. I know some people swear by them & say how 'quiet' they are these days, but not half an hour ago I watched a pretty new diesel BMW roll past me (I didn't register what it was) and I swear it sounded like a ford transit from the 90's.

I can't imagine why anyone wants that noise.

 

[Yugguy]

Diesel will gradually dwindle as alternatives become mainstream.

Trying to force people out of them could be political suicide.

 

[Craiglxviii]

There is no future for diesels... its outrageous that we continue to accept people even starting them. Death comes out the exhaust and we've all been complicit. Governments and Manufactures have known this for more than 15 years yet chose to do NOTHING about it.

Only now with Oil starting to run low and Electric powered cars becoming more and more viable have brave a few governments murmured its time to consider killing diesels.

As individuals we should grow a pair and stop killing people with the filth that comes out. The Black soot you can see coming out is little better than instant death.

Who said that oil is starting to run low? Right now we have more known untapped global reserves than at any other time in history, not including oils sands or shales.

Peak Oil has LONG since been discounted.

 

[John Laidlaw]

I hope it doesn't have a future. I know some people swear by them & say how 'quiet' they are these days, but not half an hour ago I watched a pretty new diesel BMW roll past me (I didn't register what it was) and I swear it sounded like a ford transit from the 90's.

I can't imagine why anyone wants that noise.

True and where you live CNG is fully integrated in the commercial sector
It always amuses me when I visit Japan when we in the west are seeing all sorts of unsubstantiated fears on the safety of LNG that there the stuff is shipped and offloaded right into Tokyos city centre ( almost) and many other cities and has been for 30 years or more !

 

[John Laidlaw]

Who said that oil is starting to run low? Right now we have more known untapped global reserves than at any other time in history, not including oils sands or shales.

Peak Oil has LONG since been discounted.

Is right Craig

 

[Craiglxviii]

NB it isn't the black soot that you can see. That's pretty much been stopped by Euro 6. it's the very fine grey soot that you CAN'T see that is the latest health-scare-murder-death-kill device for killing off diesel.

In relation to automotive design, diesels have a lot of advantages: the engines tend to be physically stronger and less strained for a given power output, there are fewer electrical/ electronic parts to go wrong than on a petrol engine, there are performance benefits, the car requires fewer parts and is thus simpler in construction (small- engine turbo petrol cars require much more heatshielding due to significantly elevated temperatures, highly non-trivial problem) and more to the point, the technology to defeat diesel particulates fines is known and proven; what is being developed right now is the means to mass-produce it cost-effectively.

If we all really wanted pure clean automotive prime movers and all actually gave a rat's ass about the environment, pollution, other peoples' health etc, the global population would be demanding fuel-cell hybrids NOW at current market prices (again, it's all possible...) but we don't hear that do we?

 

[Alex M Grieve]

+1. Caterpillar engineers feel that with continuous refinement and development they will get the diesel engine to much higher levels of efficiency than petrol engines could achieve, the fuel contains more energy, and you can get more diesel than petrol (especially highly refined petrol) from a barrel of crude oil.

But if diesels were as dangerous as they are now portrayed to be (oxides of nitrogen, PM10s) then I think we would be climbing over the bodies in the street by now.

As an afterthought, what the "first world" decides is good for you may change the way we behave quite quickly. The developing countries will take a long time to catch up, so any changes, no matter how urgent and important (are they really?) will not happen overnight.

 

[Craiglxviii]

+1. Caterpillar engineers feel that with continuous refinement and development they will get the diesel engine to much higher levels of efficiency than petrol engines could achieve, the fuel contains more energy, and you can get more diesel than petrol (especially highly refined petrol) from a barrel of crude oil.

But if diesels were as dangerous as they are now portrayed to be (oxides of nitrogen, PM10s) then I think we would be climbing over the bodies in the street by now.

As an afterthought, what the "first world" decides is good for you may change the way we behave quite quickly. The developing countries will take a long time to catch up, so any changes, no matter how urgent and important (are they really?) will not happen overnight.

Big very much this. It also depends on how we classify "pollution"... PM10? NO? Co2? Blah blah... if one really wants to stop global-scale pollution, get the PRC to stop using coal-fired electrical plants, or mandate flue-gas desulphurization. carbon-capture & storage, dust-collector plates and all the rest. But of course, the PRC won't because all that costs $$$ and time, and we all want our cheap tat. So the cycle continues.

The noise now around diesel is (almost) purely political and strangely only started appearing in the news in the fairly-immediate wake of VAG's cheat devices being uncovered. Occam's Razor points to the two being linked.

 

[Yugguy]

Indeed, I can't help thinking a modern diesel with low CO2, a DPF and adblue to remove the nox really isn't that bad.

I don't think it kills people instantly.

It's the older diesels and those where the 4th owner has ripped the DPF out that are the issue. IMO the MOT test should test that where a DPF is fitted, it is functional, and the removal of a factory-fitted one should be illegal.

 

[littlebrooklyn]

I wouldn't choose to buy a diesel now, have looked at them in the past, but I think it's probably better to go with petrol.

We were looking at the new 5dr mini last week and the salesman said the petrol engine is better than the diesel, but who knows.

We only pay half of our £230 car tax so we aren't bothered right now about the cost of that.

Our current car is 204bhp and we both find it very fast

 

[LostKiwi]

I wouldn't choose to buy a diesel now, have looked at them in the past, but I think it's probably better to go with petrol.

We were looking at the new 5dr mini last week and the salesman said the petrol engine is better than the diesel, but who knows.

We only pay half of our £230 car tax so we aren't bothered right now about the cost of that.

Our current car is 204bhp and we both find it very fast

New Minis use 3 cylinder engines (except Cooper S) and the diesel is particularly gruff. They also had a lot of issues with the diesels when first released with high wear rates (though that should be fixed now). Best Mini engine is the Cooper S. Driven carefully 37mpg is not difficult to achieve,

 

[davemercedes]

Or a nice big naturally aspirated LPG converted petrol engine

I would really love to do that and I've considered offerings over the years; I nearly bought a Grand Cherokee Jeep 3-4 years ago - that looked like it had just come out a new car showroom but it got sold while I thought about it doh!.

But LPG's a commitment and a half though, because you never know when the tax/price advantage will disappear - and if you've lashed out on a four/five litre motor and you suddenly have to pay petrol price for LPG you might as well commit hari kari on your wallet!