Trump...

SL63 Mark

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Trump has "achieved" the following in six months. Unfortunately most are "negatives"

Withdrawal from Trans Pacific Partnership trade deal
Withdrawal from Paris climate agreement
North Korea has not bombed the US (yet).
Bombing Assad's airforce

The list of failures is far longer.
 

Craiglxviii

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Trump has "achieved" the following in six months. Unfortunately most are "negatives"

Withdrawal from Trans Pacific Partnership trade deal In the US interest. The TPTP did not suit the US.
Withdrawal from Paris climate agreement In the US' best interests. The PAris Climate Accords do not suit the US economy.
North Korea has not bombed the US (yet). Nor will it...
Bombing Assad's airforce Let's be accurate- deleting half of Syria's precision strike/ interdiction fleet.

The list of failures is far longer.

What is the list of failures?
 

AMGeed

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What is the list of failures?

You can start with the collapse of the GOP efforts to repeal Obamacare

You want more?
The funding of the wall along the border with Mexico
His travel ban on muslims entering the US
His initial response to the far right white supremist rally in Charlotteville.
 

Craiglxviii

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You can start with the collapse of the GOP efforts to repeal Obamacare

You want more?
The funding of the wall along the border with Mexico
His travel ban on muslims entering the US
His initial response to the far right white supremist rally in Charlotteville.

Ok, I'll take the Obamacare one.

Wall funding- its a very long term project. It's hardly faltered.

The travel ban wasn't his and had been in force for quite some time beforehand.

The initial response that blamed both sides?

Is that his list of failures? Considering he's had the most difficult job of any POTUS since Reagan (another joke, unpresidential candidate st the time btw) then this looks like usual business of leading a government. Especially one in the background context of a semi hostile bureaucracy.

Draining the swamp indeed.
 

SL63 Mark

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What is the list of failures?
This may take several posts, as it is quite lengthy.

I will start with this morning's episode

Complete volte face regarding Afghanistan ? OK, not a "failure" as such, actually a sensible move, let's just say a failure to adhere to his pre-election promise to leave, instead he is looking to do the reverse.

Also a failure to substantiate his claims regarding Russian support for Hilary's campaign.

Failure to even start to build wall accompanied by an embarrassing leak of his conversation with the Mexican president, where Trump tried to propose a face saving compromise.

Total failure to gain support of Republican majority to dismantle Obama care as detailed above.

Historic failure of leadership over Charlottesville, accompanied by belated and half hearted condemnation of white supremacists.

More to come later, as I do not have time at the moment.
 

Craiglxviii

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This may take several posts, as it is quite lengthy.

I will start with this morning's episode

Complete volte face regarding Afghanistan ? OK, not a "failure" as such, actually a sensible move, let's just say a failure to adhere to his pre-election promise to leave, instead he is looking to do the reverse. So having gotten into office and having put in place a SecDef who can doesn't need a roadmap and both hands to find his a$$, he has revised the policy on Afghan to take into account the new facts. This has been very well-received by the Afghan government too from the interview I heard this morning. This fits his business-leader background... why pursue a direction/ plan that has just been proven to be no good? You don't, you revise (PDCA), reevaluate constantly.

Also a failure to substantiate his claims regarding Russian support for Hilary's campaign. He appointed a Special Investigator to look into the whole thing.

Failure to even start to build wall accompanied by an embarrassing leak of his conversation with the Mexican president, where Trump tried to propose a face saving compromise. You mean the wall that's already being prototyped? Posted earlier in this thread.

Total failure to gain support of Republican majority to dismantle Obama care as detailed above. Yup I'll grant that one.

Historic failure of leadership over Charlottesville, accompanied by belated and half hearted condemnation of white supremacists. That's your opinion. What I've heard has been pretty much exactly in keeping with the man. Something bad happened; what happened was the fault of AntiFA alone (regardless of your views of right-wing demonstrations, it was a LEGAL demonstration with a permit to proceed). So by decrying the fact that the rally went ahead at all, you directly attack the First Amendment to the Constitution, that of the protection of speech and expression. Trump came into power precisely on a ticket of returning the country to the rule of law as laid down in the Constitution.

More to come later, as I do not have time at the moment.

OK, so what has he achieved?

US: MEX illegal immigration arrests- dropped from 250k (2016) to 150k (2017) for the first 6 months of the year. The director of the USBA specifically attributes this to the "get tough" policy that Trump instituted on taking office.

The unemployment rate is now running at 4.3%, the lowest figure since 2001 and Dubya.

The withdrawal from the TPTP. This is a good thing for the USA. Remember Maximal Realism- no deal is better than a bad deal. This is a word-perfect example of that political worldview. The TPTP was a bad deal for USA Inc.

Gorsuch in the Supreme Court. This is huge.

Foreign policy- he has strengthened ties with traditional US allies and very clearly reaffirmed US resolve to maintain its position in the world. He has shown the dictators of various TPLACs that agreements on the use of chemical weapons should be kept to; he's the first POTUS since Reagan to stare at the DPRK and make it blink.
 

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If Trump goes into Afghanistan he's likely to be on a hiding to nothing.
Only one army has ever successfully conquered Afghanistan - Alexander the Great. Evn he said the three most dangerous things in the world were the Venom of a King Cobra, the claws of a Bengal Tiger and the revenge of an Afghan.

The Russians gave up on the place and so has Britain - 3 times.
 

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If Trump goes into Afghanistan he's likely to be on a hiding to nothing.
Only one army has ever successfully conquered Afghanistan - Alexander the Great. Evn he said the three most dangerous things in the world were the Venom of a King Cobra, the claws of a Bengal Tiger and the revenge of an Afghan.

The Russians gave up on the place and so has Britain - 3 times.

This is true, but first one needs to look at what his objectives are. Ours were to hold the country to prevent Russia from using it as a staging post to invade India- that was the importance of the Khyber Pass. The civ pop were not on our side there, the warlords & badmashi were not on our side and so much in the way of gollllld had to be paid in bribery. it should be pointed out that the civ pop were not actively against us until they were raised so. Each of the three Afghan forays was in support of another (anti-Russian_ goal and not a goal in itself.

The Soviets' objectives were to expand the USSR/ prevent expansion of global capitalism into their regional sphere and so used the whole "failure of the government" thing as an excuse to install their own puppet government. The civ pop were dead against this as it was an obvious invasion. The invasion of Afghanistan was a goal in and of itself.

Right now, the elected Afghan government has requested further aid from the US in defeating both the Taliban and Daesh/ ISIS/ ISIL/ various goat-botherers who want to return as much of the world as they can conquer back to the early Middle Ages. In that, the US forces have the support- for about the first time in recorded history- of the Afghan armed forces. That is to say, the civilian population is not against the US. Go back to the whole defeating-an-insurgency thing that Carl and I have gone on about; the key to it is to drive the insurgents out of the villages (by the government via its organs of state providing support to those villages). This then denies the insurgents a recruitable population. Continuing to expand on the safe areas around the villages further denies the insurgents safe harbor areas to operate out of. That's pretty much exactly what the US, under Trump's policy, is doing- and it's being done with the full backing of the Afghani government.
 

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This is true, but first one needs to look at what his objectives are. Ours were to hold the country to prevent Russia from using it as a staging post to invade India- that was the importance of the Khyber Pass. The civ pop were not on our side there, the warlords & badmashi were not on our side and so much in the way of gollllld had to be paid in bribery. it should be pointed out that the civ pop were not actively against us until they were raised so. Each of the three Afghan forays was in support of another (anti-Russian_ goal and not a goal in itself.

The Soviets' objectives were to expand the USSR/ prevent expansion of global capitalism into their regional sphere and so used the whole "failure of the government" thing as an excuse to install their own puppet government. The civ pop were dead against this as it was an obvious invasion. The invasion of Afghanistan was a goal in and of itself.

Right now, the elected Afghan government has requested further aid from the US in defeating both the Taliban and Daesh/ ISIS/ ISIL/ various goat-botherers who want to return as much of the world as they can conquer back to the early Middle Ages. In that, the US forces have the support- for about the first time in recorded history- of the Afghan armed forces. That is to say, the civilian population is not against the US. Go back to the whole defeating-an-insurgency thing that Carl and I have gone on about; the key to it is to drive the insurgents out of the villages (by the government via its organs of state providing support to those villages). This then denies the insurgents a recruitable population. Continuing to expand on the safe areas around the villages further denies the insurgents safe harbor areas to operate out of. That's pretty much exactly what the US, under Trump's policy, is doing- and it's being done with the full backing of the Afghani government.

Yes that is all very sensible, plus Afghanistan is a legendary heroin producer, so why did Trump say he wanted to come out of Afghanistan pre-election ? He is on record. The problem is not his current policy per se, it his off the cuff announcements and pledges that are the problem.
 

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Yes that is all very sensible, plus Afghanistan is a legendary heroin producer, so why did Trump say he wanted to come out of Afghanistan pre-election ? He is on record. The problem is not his current policy per se, it his off the cuff announcements and pledges that are the problem.

That I don't know. However I'll return to the point I made earlier: Trump is a businessman and a very high-level one at that. Making a political point of wanting to pull forces out of a theatre of operations, then receiving a briefing which tells him that doing so would be A Bad idea, and continuing to do so would be to put political capital before actual results*. That is the definition of Minimal Realism. Trump is a Maximal Realist, to him it's all about the results and not the politics. Therefore he changes his plans VERY quickly to adapt to the new situation and profit by it.

(*For "results", read "however one defines results" in this case. Obama's aim was to further entrench the DNC within the Deep State, a net result of that was to diminish US power and influence globally to the benefit of regional players in countries like Iran. Trump's aim is to bring the USA back to the unquestionable position of Global Hegemon- all of his efforts so far have been to clearing house internally & externally to bring this about. His last speech on Afghanistan made that clear- to keep Americans safe.)
 

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Yes that is all very sensible, plus Afghanistan is a legendary heroin producer, so why did Trump say he wanted to come out of Afghanistan pre-election ? He is on record. The problem is not his current policy per se, it his off the cuff announcements and pledges that are the problem.

That I don't know. However I'll return to the point I made earlier: Trump is a businessman and a very high-level one at that. Making a political point of wanting to pull forces out of a theatre of operations, then receiving a briefing which tells him that doing so would be A Bad idea, and continuing to do so would be to put political capital before actual results*. That is the definition of Minimal Realism. Trump is a Maximal Realist, to him it's all about the results and not the politics. Therefore he changes his plans VERY quickly to adapt to the new situation and profit by it.

(*For "results", read "however one defines results" in this case. Obama's aim was to further entrench the DNC within the Deep State, a net result of that was to diminish US power and influence globally to the benefit of regional players in countries like Iran. Trump's aim is to bring the USA back to the unquestionable position of Global Hegemon- all of his efforts so far have been to clearing house internally & externally to bring this about. His last speech on Afghanistan made that clear- to keep Americans safe.)
 

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There was a piece the other day on one of the news channels about Afghanistan. They were talking to local leaders about Americas role in Afghanistan... The overwhelming view was that The Yanks were shooting and bombing first then asking questions later, They just needed a whimper of suspicion to blow houses apart and kill families, from afar with tanks, as they did not wish to risk american lives... One local Commander said they had spent months trying to rout out the enemy from a particular valley.
He said there was little opposition there, ''give me 100 men and two helicopters and I will clear that valley in two hours''.
The general consensus is also that the Afghani people are turning against the Americans, and that they will be there for a long time
 

Craiglxviii

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Now we get into the realms of rules of engagement and operational posture. This is a very, very complex area indeed and is nothing like as simple as you make out. Carl is the one to ask on this. However... as I understand it:

The Afghan forces are fairly riddled with Taliban informants, therefore any operations are carried out with full enemy knowledge and pre-warning.
The US RoE have been very highly restrictive for a long time- literally to the point where a pilot would be sat on the runway and get an order "Fly to XXX,YYY, drop a single Mk.82 on building XXXX,YYYY then return" direct from the White House. These are now being relaxed to more of a "Close with the enemy and destroy them".
The US SOP has been, since 1865, it is better to expend things and not the lives of their young men and women. Thus, use lots of ammunition and keep our soldiers alive.
The whole Hearts & Minds thing means that once a village begins to resist the insurgency, the insurgents around it become a target. So one needs to put as much support as possible into helping villages resist the insurgents' approaches. This has been very much lacking in the US approach- from what I've seen now it is being very much embraced, the Thais have significant advisor presence going to US forces to help them (the Thais are world class experts in combatting insurgencies).
 

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Fixed that for you too.

Here's a not totally unbiased view from the WaPo.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rumps-business-empire/?utm_term=.0c8e5de1ec1c


As I said in my post, you can Google any number of sources that indicate he was a lousy businessman.

I can't read your link as I have adblocker :cool:

Here are a few more links that reinforce my claim he was poor. Unbiased? Well I suppose it depends who is writing it.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/donald-trumps-13-biggest-business-failures-20160314
http://uk.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-businesses-failures-successes-2016-10
http://time.com/4343030/donald-trump-failures/
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/12/donald-trumps-business-failures-election-2016-486091.html

Trump is a crooked as a snake, but he'd still have got my vote over Hilary
 

Craiglxviii

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It's interesting that (if we look at his business success/ failures) the fact and data gets somewhat murky beyond a certain point. Every ratings agency gives him a wildly different net worth, for instance, ranging from $84m to $8.9b.

What can be calculated from the "knowns" is that his business success rate is 43%- that is, how many ventures of his turned a profit (I think it's in that link). That's quite a strong performance.
 

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It's interesting that (if we look at his business success/ failures) the fact and data gets somewhat murky beyond a certain point. Every ratings agency gives him a wildly different net worth, for instance, ranging from $84m to $8.9b.

What can be calculated from the "knowns" is that his business success rate is 43%- that is, how many ventures of his turned a profit (I think it's in that link). That's quite a strong performance.
I would love to be as unsuccessful as Trump.

:)
 

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And in tonight's Trump news - just caught the end of this so excuse any inaccuracy

The Secret Service are kicking off because Trump is requesting protection for his extended family and associates, including adult sons on "Business Trips" and they don't have the resources. You couldn't make it up.
 

SL63 Mark

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OK, so what has he achieved?

US: MEX illegal immigration arrests- dropped from 250k (2016) to 150k (2017) for the first 6 months of the year. The director of the USBA specifically attributes this to the "get tough" policy that Trump instituted on taking office. .

This is coincidental, like the weather. It cannot be credited to Trump

The unemployment rate is now running at 4.3%, the lowest figure since 2001 and Dubya.
Again, how can this be credited to Trumpy ?

The withdrawal from the TPTP. This is a good thing for the USA. Remember Maximal Realism- no deal is better than a bad deal. This is a word-perfect example of that political worldview. The TPTP was a bad deal for USA Inc.

Gorsuch in the Supreme Court. This is huge.
.
Agreed, that is an "achievement", if you could call it that, but hardly difficult to achieve, in fact it was accomplished with the stroke of a pen, as this is the Presidents nominee.

Foreign policy- he has strengthened ties with traditional US allies and very clearly reaffirmed US resolve to maintain its position in the world. He has shown the dictators of various TPLACs that agreements on the use of chemical weapons should be kept to; he's the first POTUS since Reagan to stare at the DPRK and make it blink.

I am sure that traditional US allies are extremely wary of him, and do not trust him at all.

His unpredicatability may be beneficial when it comes to dealing with other crackpots like Kim Il Sun, but it is an extremely dangerous state of affairs, just ask the good folk of Guam.
 


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