W164 Gearbox no oil change and 12 years old

[neilto]

I've shortlisted a W164 320CDI SE as a possible buy. Its 2005 but low miles and looks very tidy for its age. Trouble is that its not had the transmission oil change done at 37500 miles and has now done double that. Should I walk away or buy it and get the oil changed now or is it too late?
I've searched google and here but opinion seems divided so I thought I'd ask for a specific car.
Its had an easy life (so far) 5000 annual miles and no towbar serviced every 2 years by MB.
I'll fit a towbar and it will work a bit harder for me once I attach a horse box and Highland pony!

 

[AMGeed]

Missing one ATF change wouldn't put me off an otherwise decent looking car.
Just arrange an ATF change as soon as convenient.

 

[Frosty149]

Agreed^^
Providing the box is functioning as it should - test driving should reveal any nasties.

 

[Mark A]

As above I wouldn't let it put me off, but you could use the cost of the fluid change as a bargaining tool. When you do get the ATF changed, insist that they drain the torque convertor too.

 

[neilto]

Thanks for the above - my thoughts also but I wanted some assurance.

 

[Richard Moakes]

Official MB towing kit requires a new rear SAM and I believe it may also call for an upgraded electric fan as the standard unit cannot province the engine and transmission cooling required in extreme conditions.

 

[neilto]

Official MB towing kit requires a new rear SAM and I believe it may also call for an upgraded electric fan as the standard unit cannot province the engine and transmission cooling required in extreme conditions.

Pardon my ignorance but what is a rear SAM and what does it do? I'll bet most towbar retrofit companies don't go through that it'll just be bolted on. One of the cars I'm looking at has a towbar but it wasn't in the build spec so must be a retrofit.

 

[Mark A]

If it’s already fitted and working, no need to worry. SAM is Signal Aquisition Module the rear behind the access panel in the boot on drivers side.

 

[Richard Moakes]

SAM controls lights and sensors, it has to be coded to let all other onboard systems know that a tow hitch has been fitted, the official tow kit plugs into the SAM rather than tapping into the wiring, unfortunately the W164 comes from the factory with a SAM that is missing the socket, so you have to upgrade the SAM as well, which ends up being expensive.

A canbus compliant 3rd party module which interfaces to the wiring is a lot cheaper and just as effective, but the car will not know a trailer is attached and will not show bulb faults in the dash display and will not adjust the traction control and suspension for towing when a connection is made.

 

[turbopete]

SAM controls lights and sensors, it has to be coded to let all other onboard systems know that a tow hitch has been fitted, the official tow kit plugs into the SAM rather than tapping into the wiring, unfortunately the W164 comes from the factory with a SAM that is missing the socket, so you have to upgrade the SAM as well, which ends up being expensive.

A canbus compliant 3rd party module which interfaces to the wiring is a lot cheaper and just as effective, but the car will not know a trailer is attached and will not show bulb faults in the dash display and will not adjust the traction control and suspension for towing when a connection is made.

the modules will warn of indicator bulb failures. the bypass relays have to legally (either audibly or via tell tale light, or both)

 

[Richard Moakes]

the modules will warn of indicator bulb failures. the bypass relays have to legally (either audibly or via tell tale light, or both)

Agreed, just not in the LCD display as per the factory kit.

You pays your money and makes your choice, I just wanted the OP to understand the options.

 

[Richard Moakes]

the modules will warn of indicator bulb failures. the bypass relays have to legally (either audibly or via tell tale light, or both)

Agreed, just not in the LCD display as per the factory kit.

You pays your money and makes your choice, I just wanted the OP to understand the options.

 

[Botus]

early boxes were awful so the amount of filth in there will not have done it any good, gearbox specialist I was talking to say a lot of the failures is down to dirty oil.

mine was at a very gentle 42k miles and 8 years before its first change, before getting it done I asked the indy what he thought the oil would be like.... "disgusting" was his reply. He totally undersold it, the stuff came out looked more like you'd get out the bottom of the ocean, it was totally black full of stuff and smelt like all the clutches and bands had been fried forever

Torque converter failure (lock up clutch, is a biggy with dirty oil) electro plate allegedly linked to same issue but I suspect its time related, on purpose failure. if the car is great and you quite like the idea of a 2k bill any time soon go ahead.... I'd go get a decent car that's far more modern

 

[Richard Moakes]

early boxes were awful so the amount of filth in there will not have done it any good, gearbox specialist I was talking to say a lot of the failures is down to dirty oil.

mine was at a very gentle 42k miles and 8 years before its first change, before getting it done I asked the indy what he thought the oil would be like.... "disgusting" was his reply. He totally undersold it, the stuff came out looked more like you'd get out the bottom of the ocean, it was totally black full of stuff and smelt like all the clutches and bands had been fried forever

Torque converter failure (lock up clutch, is a biggy with dirty oil) electro plate allegedly linked to same issue but I suspect its time related, on purpose failure. if the car is great and you quite like the idea of a 2k bill any time soon go ahead.... I'd go get a decent car that's far more modern

What happened with your gearbox after the oil change?

My box had the change on schedule at a Mercedes dealer, but I do worry about the long term prospects of the gearbox and when the fluid should be changed again.

 

[steveq]

early boxes were awful so the amount of filth in there will not have done it any good, gearbox specialist I was talking to say a lot of the failures is down to dirty oil.

mine was at a very gentle 42k miles and 8 years before its first change, before getting it done I asked the indy what he thought the oil would be like.... "disgusting" was his reply. He totally undersold it, the stuff came out looked more like you'd get out the bottom of the ocean, it was totally black full of stuff and smelt like all the clutches and bands had been fried forever

Torque converter failure (lock up clutch, is a biggy with dirty oil) electro plate allegedly linked to same issue but I suspect its time related, on purpose failure. if the car is great and you quite like the idea of a 2k bill any time soon go ahead.... I'd go get a decent car that's far more modern

I'm not sure I agree with you there.
Many, many Mercedes-Benz cars go on for enormous mileages without having gearbox issues.

The OPs car has relatively low mileage and doesn't have a gearbox issue. The recommendation is to change the ATF as soon as possible. If the TC cannot be drained the it is worth doing it a second time as a flush.

Unless you are buying a very new car with a good warranty you are taking a chance on any secondhand car.

 

[grahamcol]

As above and don't fret too much. Although it's a good idea to change the fluid and filter occasionally the world won't end if it goes several k miles over. I remember my Indy doing a first change of fluid on my very first 202 which had covered about 125k mikes at the time. The fluid was actually pretty good and still red in colour. From the rusted in sump bolts we concluded the fluid hadn't been changed for a long while, if ever.

 

[neilto]

while I was deliberating about it someone else jumped in and bought it hey ho.
went to see a 2008 one today but it seemed to have an electrical gremlin as there was a lot of stuff not working. I'm getting a bit frustrated with it now. Seeing another tomorrow and I've only driven 450 miles to see it.

 

[Botus]

What happened with your gearbox after the oil change?

My box had the change on schedule at a Mercedes dealer, but I do worry about the long term prospects of the gearbox and when the fluid should be changed again.

it works...
to start with after the oil change it seemed worse !! then it settled down a bit and the change seemed better. Now and then its pretty ropey, but then the 7g box is just ropey.

10k miles on its seems to be a bit like a woman, seems worse at times and others OK. In the last few months its been behaving.

Pretty sure Merc don't have a clue, as the oil in the 10 years since the box came out was upgraded 3 times to try and cope. Which makes me think another change would be a good idea, as it has no TC drain and so it leaves 3 litres of filth in there to mix with the later oil which probably isn't that clever. But as the speed sensor and gear selector are all designed to fail I was waiting for them....

At 42 k miles just after I got the car I realised was a noise at times rather loud and at others it vanishes... which is a cross between a transmission whine and oil at pressure running around. Oddly it seems worse in 1st than 2nd but its often gone if you turn off the AC !!! I gave up worrying as it does as it pleases making the same level and type of noise before and after the oil change and no change 10k on

 

[Botus]

I'm not sure I agree with you there.
Many, many Mercedes-Benz cars go on for enormous mileages without having gearbox issues.

.

Many cars limp along for a many miles with serious issues, I don't care out how many miles.

I'm referring to the quality of the changes and potential intervention to keep it going.
A leaking oil cooler, a speed sensor plate, the odd slipping band and a torque convertor change should not be standard operating costs on a modern car.

 

[steveq]

I'm referring to the quality of the changes and potential intervention to keep it going.
A leaking oil cooler, a speed sensor plate, the odd slipping band and a torque convertor change should not be standard operating costs on a modern car.

If you suffered all those issues you are unfortunate however I don't think that they are normal or standard. Do you clock up enormous miles?
Certainly not in my experience of Mercs -- now 6 cars over more than 10 years (although one is manual - is saying that a bit like admitting to a crime??!!).
I changed the ATF in 3 of them but never had a gearbox issue in any -- frantically touching wood.

I was in a W211 E220 taxi recently and he had about 350,000 miles on the clock and no significant issues at all (well he said that the water pump failed recently -- he considered trying to get it fixed under warranty!!!!).