W210 E320 cdi bizzare cutting out fault.

Amaz'in

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Hi All,

This is my first post here on the forum, I know there is a vast amount of knowledge on here and I hope I can tap into it and get some help on a problem which has me baffled.

In short;

Car suddenly cuts out, 'seemingly' only when in heavy/non moving traffic after around 45 minutes.

In much more detail; (Btw ALL under-bonnet fuel pipes etc were replaced last year)

I had 'assumed' its maybe fuel related, and in particular..the in tank filter.

My reasoning for this is the chronological events below.

About 2 months ago I ran the car really low on fuel (was showing 18 miles to go on dash). I went to the garage and filled her up, next morning the car would not start...nothing.

I took the lid of the engine bay filter housing popped another filter in and noticed the filter bowl was only 1/4 full? wasn't sure how full it should be, so topped it up, and after a few attempts car finally fired up.

Around two weeks later, on my daily 30+ mile drive home I hit a tailback and with the traffic only moving a few feet in maybe 30-40 mins car suddenly stops, I immediately turned the key and it fired straight up, traffic had thinned a bit and I drove it home, I had around 1/4 of a tank at this time.

When I got home I popped in another filter, for the hell of it, again filter housing was low so just topped it up.

Around 1 month ago same scenario, hit very long tailback after a similar duration, and it just cut out again, but this time wouldn't start. I popped in yet another filter, filled the housing and fired her up again.

I had read if these cars have been run low when they have 1/4 of a tank of less they can manifest this issue.

last weekend I had to make a 550 mile round trip (gulp) to Bristol and I kept the tank a minimum of 1/2 full or above...car performed A1..no tailbacks..no issues?

Problem sorted then? Monday night hit tailback with traffic moving maybe 100 yards in 40+ minutes..and you guessed it..car cut out..hmm 1/2 tank this time, managed to glide the car into a bus stop, duly undone filter housing only to find it brim full this time..Hmm that's odd. waited maybe 10-15 mins and car fired up instantly.

Having convinced myself it's fuel tank related, I popped to my local trusted Garage, and his opinion is it maybe something else, and the 40+ min tailback issue maybe just a coincidence.

So he read the codes and got the following;

P1222 B37-002 Accelerator pedal sensor 1 signal voltage too high.

P1354-016 Synchronization stored between crankshaft and camshaft..no crankshaft signal.

P1354-032 same as 016 above.

Am I on wrong track with fuel?? is it something like a crank position sensor? why does it 'seemingly' only cut out in long periods of heavy traffic??

Mechanic has cleared the codes to allow the fault the show its ugly head again and after it cuts out..bring it in for a code read.

Trouble is, how an earth am I supposed to drive around in a car behaving like this?

Any advice will be very gratefully received.

Sorry for Biblical length of post.
 

Irresistance

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It appears you mainly get an issue when the car gets hot. My first thought would be Crankshaft position sensor (or Camshaft position sensor, never sure which one...) this is a common fault and causes starting issues when the engine is (very) warm. Would not explain the fuel issues though (assuming low-fuel level in filter is at all an issue, I don't know this), although in the W210 the fuel pump is mechanical so not something that usually fails.

The sensor is a DIY job and relatively cheap. Get a branded one though (not the cheapest on eBay).

There will be more advice shortly I am sure :)
 

toby1

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Crank sensor looks favourite. They usually fail when hot and recover when cooled.
 

BAZZER1

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I would definitely get it into a qualified Merc Indie Specialist who will probably be able to get to the root of this problem rather than possible guess work as to the cause, it needs to be sorted as it might cause you to have an accident by having another motorist rear shunt you when it cuts out.
There are some very good Indies on here that just might be able to point you in the right direction of this fault.
Keep us informed
Best of luck with getting this solved

BAZZER1
 
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Amaz'in

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Irresistance/toby1.... thanks for your very prompt responses, I really appreciate it.

I have, for various reasons, had an immensely bad week all round and it warms my heart when you get help like this.

I am guessing there will be a simple 'how to' on here for carrying out this job, whilst not a qualified mechanic I am reasonably au fait with most car work.

I have been preparing myself for the removal of the fuel tank this weekend, but don't like throwing a few hours away chasing red Herrings..if indeed it is a non issue.

I had wondered about the extra heat from stationary traffic, oddly the temp gauge never moves above 82 degrees no matter what, but I guess it would take a nuclear explosion to make one of these 606/616 lumps overly heat up?

Will Mercedes Star reader give me any added detail? (do I even need more detail other than what I have?) although that's bound to cost me £££ for a simple code read.

James.
 

toby1

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Not sure where you read about the fuel tank below ¼ but I always run down to the red with no issue. Leave the fuel tank alone.

I can't add to what's already been said. A learned technicial will know what to do.
 
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Amaz'in

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Bazzer1...many thanks.

My sentiments exactly, whilst the fault is currently manifesting itself due to the build up of a little extra excess heat (from being stationary) I will assume, if I dare, a failing component like a cps (or?) may only get worse?

Cutting out suddenly isn't good for the heart rate, the drive to and from Bristol, some 275 miles each way was very nerve wracking I can tell you.

Will anyone still be able to read the codes now my local indie has cleared them..I do have the small receipt size print out he gave me.

Thanks so far everyone.

James.
 

bob 6600

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At least your fuel filter is clean!

Btw, the filter housing being 1/4 full is normal
 
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Amaz'in

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Yes it certainly is clean..no bad thing. One must look for the positives.:)

If 1/4 full in the filter housing then no worries, that's where it was for all but the last breakdown when it was brim full?

Just called a local Merc indie and they inform me they have a Star reader so £57.50 +Drat to read the code.

Any idea how much a CPS is anyone?
 

BAZZER1

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Take up the offer of the local Indie for a STAR Test and in my experience, they should be able to pin point the problem for you, these qualified Indies know their way around a Mercedes and will provide you with worthwhile information.
I always MBS at Southampton, good guys with great knowledge.

Let us know how you get on after the STAR Test has been done.

BAZZER1
 

Frontstep

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I think the replacement of the CPS which is simple and around £30 from ecp is not a bad bet or around £50 for a oem one.
 

Naraic

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CPS will probably do it.

But, just for interest's sake...you also have a fuel tank filter and they can get very clogged.
 

Frontstep

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I think the heat is the clue to this failure.
 
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Amaz'in

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Just popped along to our local Mercedes Main agent to get prices on,

Crank and cam sensor.

Chap in parts says it's the crank sensor, it's quite common hence they keep them on the shelf...he says crank sensor is very rarely required so they don't keep those, readout actually points to crank sensor on re-reading it.

They quote;

Crank sensor £119.40
Cam sensor £146.40

Will phone ECP shortly, are their parts OK? I'm guessing these parts only come from one or two sources or are there cheap inferior parts out there?

James
 
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Amaz'in

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I understand changing the in-tank filter on the Estate is a doddle, 22 mm hex and viola, however it isn't accessible on the Saloon hence the tank needs to be entirely removed??
 

Frontstep

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Just popped along to our local Mercedes Main agent to get prices on,

Crank and cam sensor.

Chap in parts says it's the crank sensor, it's quite common hence they keep them on the shelf...he says crank sensor is very rarely required so they don't keep those, readout actually points to crank sensor on re-reading it.

They quote;

Crank sensor £119.40
Cam sensor £146.40

Will phone ECP shortly, are their parts OK? I'm guessing these parts only come from one or two sources or are there cheap inferior parts out there?

James

Thats a daft price for a crank sensor.
If you took one apart you would wonder what planet they were on.
ECP do two as I listed above.
Other people sell them.
 
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Amaz'in

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Only a subtle difference in pricing from ECP.

Crank sensor OEM quality £48.50
Cam Sensor " " £22.50

Any thoughts on the quality of these parts, I'm thinking sod it, it really is looking like crank sensor let lets remove the old one at the weekend and do it all myself?

Print out, opinion here (consensus) and Mercedes of Norwich (based on a stores persons advice not mechanic) all say crank sensor, if I book it in at indies at £57.50 to re-read code, plus get them to fit part at £119.40 plus labour, I can buy both sensors for £80.00..

So next question, how big a deal is it to fit the Crank sensor, and is it best accessed from above or below?

James
 

Frontstep

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Pays your money you takes your choice both may well last for many years.
Look on youtube or google images for its location they are very easy to fit
oh and from above
 
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gizze

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Hi James,

worth speaking to Bruce at MB Autocentre.

Unit 4 The Beaver Centre
John Goshawk Road
Rashs green
Dereham
NR19 1SY

01362 690327


Guy
 
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Amaz'in

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Cheers Guy,

I think (hope?) its all sorted now.

Got up early Saturday morning to peruse the task in hand, looked down at the sensor and thought, hmm this doesn't look too bad, is this going to be one of those nightmare jobs you wish you never started?

So for fun I thought, sod it, lets do it myself, so I collected the crank sensor (in another car so I didn't have to wait until it cooled down) and time myself.

14 minutes later the job was all done, OK not easy access, especially with big hands like mine, glad I didn't take it to a garage. It was pretty tricky getting a tool on that 8 mm female star bolt.

Granted I have yet to try it, but I'm thinking if I take the car for a run, get it fully up to temperature, then leave it idling on the drive for 45+ minutes, this should fully simulate the tailbacks I was sitting in before the problem would manifest each time?

James.
 
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