W211 e class 2004 not starting

[Murty]

Hi, can anyone please help?
My e class won't start and won't tick over, battery is charging ok and I have tried a booster as well. Sometimes the coil light won't appear on the dash, sometimes it does, it sometimes used to start and once started was fine, at the moment it is at an indie garage and he hasn't a clue why it won't start. Only fault coming on the dash is ESP defective. Can anyone help?

 

[television]

The ESP is only a fault of low battery or loss of 12 volt some where.

Does the car turn over (crank)

 

[Murty]

Nothing is turning over, I may have to sit in the car for an hour continuously trying to start it by taking the key out, pressing the button and trying it again, eventually it may tick over and start. The problem is Malcolm it sometimes ticks over, starts and immediately cuts out, can't understand what is causing this?

 

[mercuxio]

Did you manage to find the cause of this problem ? I am experiencing the similar issue. However, when mine starts, it doesn't die off.

 

[Mark@RMK]

ECU problem... If the ESP and coil light come on and no start then the ECU is no communicating properly.

Did 2 w211 -320cdi and 270cdi last week with the same problem!

 

[Voltan]

What is the status now ?

 

[FrenchCollection]

I have just bought a 2003 E 220 CDI and am having the same problem. Turn the key and the ignition and dash lights come on, but the car won't start - doesn't even turn over, as if the battery was dead. Then I get a message saying ESP Defective. It starts eventually if I keep switching off and retrying.

Discussed this with Alex Crow today and checked some things he suggested.

1. Established that when the car fails to start the engine fan starts to run, possibly indicating no communication with ECU?

2. Checked voltage at both sides of fuses as follows:

Left side or front right side
(left / right looking at engine towards back of car)

Fuse 43 12.28 12.13 fault condition (i.e. fan on)
12.08 12.08 fault condition (i.e. fan on)
12.3 12.3 no fan, no fault

Fuse 57 12.09 12.09 fault condition (i.e. fan on)
12.4 12.4 no fan, no fault

Fuse 59 12.1 12.09 fault condition (i.e. fan on)
12.42 12.59 no fan, no fault

Also removed relay L in the box at the back near side of engine bay and swapped it for another relay with the same part no.

The fault still occurred.

Also checked that there is a good earth connection between engine and body of car.

Checked the connection son the battery, which are all good. The battery is a Mercedes battery, so could be the original (do Mercedes batteries last 8 years? If so, I'm impressed!)


Anyone got any ideas? Anyone some across this problem and solved it?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[television]

The fact that the ESP comes on shows that the battery has no power in it at all, please note is is of the AGM type and not a regular lead acid battery

 

[Alex Crow]

malcolm, he has over 12 volts my man, and it will randomly start/not start.

 

[television]

malcolm, he has over 12 volts my man, and it will randomly start/not start.

The battery still went very low to get the ESP warning up, thats all I said, unless the battery was disconnected during those test

 

[Alex Crow]

at the engine ECU we need power on following...

plug 2 pins number 19, 5, 3 and 1 - live with ignition on
plug 2 pins number 2, 4 and 6 permanent earth.

best to remove pugs from housing - they slide out - reconnect to ECU and pin out of top of plugs with meter.

wire colourts should be....

pin 2, 4, 6 all brown
pin 19 pink/red
pin 5 red/green
pin 3 red/blue
pin 1 red/blue

EDIT: also need to check relay 'R'

 

[Alex Crow]

malcolm, we have no glow plug light, engine fan at high speed and esp warning all happening as soon as ignition is turned on when fault is current. when engine is going to start we have none of these symptoms.

the ESP warning is likely to point towards lack of can communication with engine ECU, especially considering we have the other two more obvious indications of engine ECU can comm issues. it is very hard to test it all out properly without star, obviously if it were in my workshop it would have been plugged in by now, and i would expect to be unable to establish communication with engine ECU during fault condition.

all we can really suggest for brian to try to DIY with the meter is to verify the various power supplies to the ecu, then possibly move onto the can comms.

 

[television]

I am going to bed, have a good night Alex

 

[television]

I did not take in all the things but how about this one a known fault, it could account for the ESP and not starting, but not sure about the fan.

The starter wire is not correctly joined to the pre fuse box F32 and the spade arcs burning the spade, the disturbance could bring on the ESP lamp

The fan and the starter relay are on the same SAM N10/1 so is the ESP, could the fault be on this.

Just some thoughts

 

[drdre78]

hi if you go under bonnet.on driver side romve fuse box cover and pull out startmotor wire plug and supply it with 12v to see if startmotor is ok.

i am sure someone on here can supply you with wiring diagram

 

[FrenchCollection]

Battery was not disconneted during tests.
Brian

 

[television]

Battery was not disconneted during tests.
Brian

The box that I mentioned in in the car, all of the battery connections join there, it is recorded and known by MB must be worth a look

 

[FrenchCollection]

Alex,

Checked those pins as you suggested:

pin 19: 11.53
pin 5: 12.07
pin 3: 12.08
pin 1: 12.11

all of the above in fault condition and with the engine fan running

2,4,6 all to earth ignition on or off

My car ( a lhd) does not have a relay R - that space is empty (maybe that is the problem)

 

[FrenchCollection]

Hi Malcolm,

Can't find the fuse 32. When you say in the car, do you mean in teh boot near battery? I only have the car a week, so may not have found all the fuse boxes yet. The one I have been working on is under the bonnet, back RH corner when looking towrads the back of the car. My car is LHD, though I doubt if that affects the under bonnet layout.

 

[television]

Its not a fuse its a connection point in the car where the starter wire and main battery wires all join together , its on the floor up front passenger side,,I have no details to hand tonight but as before it is known that this connection causes problems where the spade on the wire burns away on the inside.

I will have more details tomorrow