W211 sudden loss of power

[NickSMF]

Hello Everyone,

I've just recently joined the Mercedes world - 2,000 miles ago, actually, with a 2008 W211 E280 Sport. I've had 1,950 fabulous miles and then today, about to climb a steady hill, I felt as if I was a few gears too high and the car just wouldn't pull. I had to go into manual gear shift and it moved easily through them, pulling better. I eventually got onto the motorway and I went back to comfort auto mode once up to speed. The car cruised fine but once off the motorway, it was back to the lack of pull. I parked, returned after a few hours and the car was still the same but with the addition of the engine light coming on soon after the restart.
It's been faultless up to this happening, although my 2,000 miles have only been clocked up over the last three weeks, buying it from a garage with a 1-month engine/gearbox warranty. I've yet to be in touch with them but I wondered if these symptoms pointed to anything? I've no problem with getting it into a garage but it's come at a really awkward time as I'm due to be away with work in the car tomorrow. Would anyone be able to suggest something I could look at? I have an OBD-II scanner I used for the Golf I used to have, would that show anything?
I felt as though mpg was down on the journey, previously showing (and managing) over 40 but not getting above 34 since this happened, even on the motorway. The car idles fine at junctions and there are no other apparent problems.
Thank you in anticipation!

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

Some fault codes should be stored, once you have them, post them here!

 

[NickSMF]

Thanks Steve, will do!

 

[NickSMF]

Some fault codes should be stored, once you have them, post them here!

Hi Steve, stored codes as follows:

P0244 Turbo wastegate solenoid A range/performance
P0030 H02S Heater Control Circuit bank 1 sensor 1
P0130 O2 Sensor circuit bank 1 sensor 1
P0135 O2 sensor heater circuit bank 1 sensor 1
P0670 glow plug control circuit open

There was nothing in pending codes. I haven't done any clearing of codes, just read them.

Thanks!

 

[LostKiwi]

I'd be tempted to clear them then see what returns.

 

[NickSMF]

T

I'd be tempted to clear them then see what returns.

Thanks, I'll clear them in the morning and see what happens. I'm loathe to drive it far for fear of making it worse, although I can use the steering wheel paddles and it drives passably.

 

[NickSMF]

Hi Steve, stored codes as follows:

P0244 Turbo wastegate solenoid A range/performance
P0030 H02S Heater Control Circuit bank 1 sensor 1
P0130 O2 Sensor circuit bank 1 sensor 1
P0135 O2 sensor heater circuit bank 1 sensor 1
P0670 glow plug control circuit open

There was nothing in pending codes. I haven't done any clearing of codes, just read them.

Thanks!

Just as an addition to this, I wonder if a good independent garage could be recommended? I live in the Peak District but am about 40 minutes from Sheffield & Chesterfield. Or 30 minutes when the car is going well!

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

The only thing that will cause a limp mode situation with those codes is the turbo. Suspect actuator jam.

 

[NickSMF]

The only thing that will cause a limp mode situation with those codes is the turbo. Suspect actuator jam.

Thanks Steve. Is that a case of a new actuator or a new turbo do you think? Or can I try to free it? It happened all of a sudden, slowed down to round a tight bend on a narrow bridge then wouldn't accelerate away. Would you know of a good independent garage up my way (Sheffield/Chesterfield)?

 

[ajlsl600]

is that a carbon deposit issue, or.... if so and you can get up to decent power perhaps blowing the cobwebs out,a bit of a thrash might resolve the matter, i would be tempted to try it once i knew nothing obvious wrong . as steve already said, most unlikely any other referenced fault codes are relevant to this. i would say idle not relevant either as turbo basically not trying to do much as its not spooled up at all .my money, based on yr post is sticking rod,waste gate issues. let us all know

 

[NickSMF]

is that a carbon deposit issue, or.... if so and you can get up to decent power perhaps blowing the cobwebs out,a bit of a thrash might resolve the matter, i would be tempted to try it once i knew nothing obvious wrong . as steve already said, most unlikely any other referenced fault codes are relevant to this. i would say idle not relevant either as turbo basically not trying to do much as its not spooled up at all .my money, based on yr post is sticking rod,waste gate issues. let us all know

Thanks, I'm off out shortly to lift the hood and do what I can. I'll certainly report back and let you know what happens, there's a lot in here about this fault code but not many seem to follow it through but I will.

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

Its electronic and its usually the internals of the actuator that fails. You will read a lot here about replacing actuators or repairing them. I have never seen one be a success yet long term, its always a new turbo. I can list hundreds of rebuilt actuators that I have eventually put new turbos on.

Unfortunately your part of the world has no recommended indy on this forum. Unless another member uses one near you. There must be someone around.

 

[ajlsl600]

steve,so not carbon deposit related then , does the rod and bushes for the gate not pass through the area of the turbo where carbon deposits can effect the freedom of movement of the rod and actator, and the resulting strain on the system eventually screwing up the relevant actuator. and i will admit i dont even know where that is, i guess not far from the turbo,but just out of the heat. personally i would certainly interview the turbo and its mechanical contols prior to going to bend over at mr benz. a picture of a screwed one would be nice to see, but not on my motor ,i hope .i have two of the damn things

 

[NickSMF]

Off out to have a look but I found this on YouTube

. It might not be relevant but I thought it might be interesting for folk to see. Will report back.

 

[NickSMF]

Just cleared the codes and taken it out for a run. Exactly the same, no acceleration to speak of unless I use the steering wheel gear change. It's as if the gearbox is changing up too quickly and not kicking down. It runs quite well up to 3,000 rpm with the manual box, moving quite quickly from junctions, but then I guess limp home mode kicks in. No engine light appeared but when I plugged the scanner in just now, it showed nothing in stored codes but the same codes as above in pending codes, with the exception of the glow plug one. I think my best option is to find a garage as it all looks a bit scary under the bonnet!

 

[ajlsl600]

just looked at that, guess yr on checking those two wires. ****** electronics again..... what a ball ache .. i cant figiure out wot to buy next that wont have all that crap in ,built,in my view specificaly so mr average decent mechanic will really struggle to sort situation out independantly of mr benz,s parts dept.. tho i suspect all makers are heading this way . good luck,let us know, nothingto loose by trying

 

[NickSMF]

just looked at that, guess yr on checking those two wires. ****** electronics again..... what a ball ache .. i cant figiure out wot to buy next that wont have all that crap in ,built,in my view specificaly so mr average decent mechanic will really struggle to sort situation out independantly of mr benz,s parts dept.. tho i suspect all makers are heading this way . good luck,let us know, nothingto loose by trying

Thanks, I'll let you know what whichever garage I take it to says.

 

[NickSMF]

Thanks, I'll let you know what whichever garage I take it to says.

Its electronic and its usually the internals of the actuator that fails. You will read a lot here about replacing actuators or repairing them. I have never seen one be a success yet long term, its always a new turbo. I can list hundreds of rebuilt actuators that I have eventually put new turbos on.

Unfortunately your part of the world has no recommended indy on this forum. Unless another member uses one near you. There must be someone around.

Just an update. The AA came out today in my absence and found the following in their test: System: Engine control - 75Y/Diesel EDC 16CP312270 - Glow output stage - Error message: Open circuit.2138. Glow plug, cylinder 6 - Error message: Short circuit to earth.2137. Glow plug, cylinder 5 - Error message: Short circuit to earth. Found engine breather solenoid disconnected from air intake pipe as rubber seal has deteriorated, carried out temp repair.
My wife said he'd tested it and it seems ok to him but will need a new seal. I've just returned home and found it with exactly the same fault so I'm not sure how it could have tested ok. Anyway, they're picking it up in the morning and it's going to an independent garage in Sheffield I've found on the Internet that seems to have good reviews. Good customer service over the phone, including ringing back after hours tonight and offering to go down and open the garage up tonight if we needed to drop it off. The garage is Autotecnic - http://autotecnic.co.uk . I'll keep you all posted.

 

[NickSMF]

Hi All, I said I'd update you. I finally got the car back a couple of days ago and it's had a catalogue of work done to it. All in all, a new turbo, new O2 sensor, all new glow plugs, NGR valve, glow plug relay and both inlet manifold swirl flaps. Total cost, including a gearbox service and all new air/pollen/fuel/oil filters, £4,800. The story appears to have been one of a history of short journeys that resulted in a build up of carbon. We already know that glow plugs 5 & 6, O2 sensor, glow plug relay and turbo actuator showed as faults on the system but even when replaced, the car's faults were still there. No more faults showed on the machine though. The NGR valve was replaced after consultation with Mercedes TIPS system (I'm not sure if I've written that correctly but it's the service Merc offer when a car is faulty and no fault codes showing. They basically allow access to their database of problem cars and give guidance on what to do). This didn't solve it but it was decided to leave the new valve on as the old one was carboned up. The garage then went into strip down mode. They'd seen one bank of the exhaust with excessive carbon deposits but despite lots of cleaning fluid and running the car, it wouldn't clear out. They then took off the inlet manifolds and found the swirl flaps totally gunged up with carbon and one that was bent, causing the whole lot on that bank to not work properly. They replaced both sets of swirl flaps and that solved the problem.
In addition to the carbon, they felt that the faulty glow plugs might, over a long period of time, have contributed to this. They were numbers 5 and 6, the most difficult to replace. All the others had aftermarket ones on so whoever had tried it in the past decided not to bother with 5 & 6 for fear of having to drill them out. The garage said that this would have caused a problem with the regeneration procedure that the car does automatically periodically.
The car had full service history logged on the system, all Mercedes up to about 65k and then an indie for the past two services. The fuel filter hadn't been changed for 5 years at least and the air/pollen filters were black as night. It just shows that full services history doesn't count for as much as it might.
I've now done about 300 miles in it and it has, up to now, run well. The mpg seems down at the moment, with a max of just under 40 on the dash computer, even on the motorway. The garage, however, have told me to avoid short runs, only use Shell Nitro or a similar BP version and to put some additive in each time I fill up (the garage gave me a bottle) in order to try and clear out remaining heavy carbon deposits that might be in the system. I'm hoping it gets back up the 47/48 mpg the computer showed previously after I've run it a while. I try to drive economically but they've suggested that I use the manual box occasionally to get it above 3,000 rpm and not to worry if a big black cloud comes out of the exhaust. I checked mileage myself a few times before all this happened and the dash computer was pretty accurate on its average mpg. I've attached some images to show you what they found.
The garage, Autotecnic in Sheffield, were very helpful and didn't overcharge on labour at all. The vast majority of the bill is made up of parts as they said that they couldn't charge out all the time spent on it. It's a father and son business, a really clean garage close to Meadowhall in Sheffield and they seemed to have lots of up to date diagnostic equipment. They offered me a loan car but we have enough cars not to have needed it and when I picked the car up, they spent an hour with me telling me the whole story. They had also kept every single old part and showed me what had been replaced. Despite it being gutting having to spend all this so soon after buying the car, I have no complaints about their service at all and hopefully this will mean that I'll get some very enjoyable motoring out of it in return for the money spent.
I hope that's helpful to folk in here.

 

[Craiglxviii]

I’d question the need for advanced fuels in a 280 engines model...

Either way, glad to see you’re sorted. I share your pain.