w221 radio cut off problem

[Submariner1]

im confused here

i just spoke to bba and i was advised that now my amp is not repairable

that is surprise coz on first attempt was repaired and was working for a month
after second repair least only for a week but it mean fault can be removed

i think problem is with overheating however they said is not repairable and i wait for what they can offer me

im really confused what to do here

get it back and send to Bulgaria but is they will be able to fix it?

anyone any ideas what to do im really upset about this whole situation

So sorry for you. A real pickle situation.
It could just be a massive coincidence, but as it ran 2x for such a short time after 2 repairs, if I were you I would find it suspicious its now "not repairable"
I would always wonder did their fix cause a more serious problem. Or is this a cop out because they don't really understand the problem fully.

Malcolm is probably the best person on here to advise, and if he selected Bulgaria and his worked.
My gut feel, were it mine, would be to send it there. I hear these amps are really expensive. Circa £1500-£1800
So worth a £270 punt, as it may be repairable.
Maybe ask for a refund on the wasted repair?

Plus by sending it to Bulgaria you might get it repaired, and also possibly some quality technical insight as to why, and what is now broken.
Just in case BBA "fixed" it incorrectly and in the process effectively destroyed it.
But you are on very "soft" ground. Maybe its just sods law, and BBA did fix it properly, and now something else just by coincidence died.

I do not envy you! Very difficult one.

 

[alex_78]

thanks for your input

i think is no chance that other component died coz is same symptoms and bba confirm amp is faulty (not operating etc)
it looks like they can fix problem but not the reason why problem repeating i was thinking is overheating.

to be honest i went to merc dealership today and it looks like coz w221 is older model now prices for parts goes down

it looks like new unit with full merc 2 years warranty coded to my car can be 1300-1400 is not cheap but considering each company repair circa 300 so bba plus Bulgaria make it 600 getting part from merc start to be more reasonable option

second hand one from states without warranty is 700-800 plus coding make it nearly 1k still no warranty

so i start to consider my options now

once is sorted i let you guys know maybe it will be handy for someone

 

[Botus]

wow, that's really bad....

three thoughts

1) All BBA products are covered by a limited lifetime warranty - what are they wriggling out of and why / how ?
2) Look and see if you can see a bad repair where BBA messed up the rest of the amp and kick off ?
3) If all that's a no show, for the price of postage will http://softelectronic.com/item/Mercedes+W221+Amplifier+A2218701789+BE7021-49.html check it out and see if they can repair it. (although I see only offer 6 month warranty) Could be worth a 40 quid postage fee and get money back off BBA...

 

[television]

Bulgaria can usually fix them, you can drop the amp to see if the awake is awake

 

[alex_78]

@Botus
sorry for late reply
i was told by BBA that they don't want to fix it again coz is some other problem
basically they are able to make it work but they can't locate reason why it failed again
i was offered refund but i asked them to make it work one more time and i agree to finish warranty at this stage
so i get my old unit back in working condition
based on google i found this unit often have problem with overheating so i take my chances and i open it make big hole in casing and install extra fan (pc sourced with voltage regulator to be sure it will be ok with charging by alternator 12-14.8v)
to be sure it works all time i get power from boot fuse box i found one fuse which have 12+ after key is on which make sense to me.
right now my amp have solid cooling all the time when key is in
for over a week is ok works as should only once show usual message "device unavailable" when i try start it on morning but before i get my hammer to car i try one more time and it worked again

at this stage i decide to use is as long it works and if it fail again i probably go to merc to buy new one with 2 years warranty as i mentioned above

@television
i seen in other topic you wrote something about reseting procedure etc for this amp can you give more details please?

thanks in advance

 

[alex_78]

following BBa repair

coz i don't have warranty anymore once i open it i make look around and i don't really see anything what can be replaced (i don't remove rear radiator coz i haven't thermal paste to make it right way again) so only option for replaced part will be under radiator

so i guess it must be something easy to repair however i guess is technician secret

 

[Botus]

I had a laptop where the graphics chip is soldered on the board, it is badly made and just dies...

the std fix is to strip the motherboard out and use a heat gun or put in in the oven !!!! sounds wild and a great way to trash it... looking on the internet its also a Std fix for an XBOX

I didn't have a heat gun and didn't believe it would work anyway... so I put it in the oven for 20 mins at 180C and the fix worked for 6 months !!! when it died the second time I bought a heat gun and used laser temp probe.... but it never worked and went in the bin

"reflow" is the term they use on youtube maybe that's the fault with the Merc Amp ????

 

[alex_78]

@Botus

right now i leave it as it is coz it works right now

i was only surprised once i opened it coz i don't notice any fresh soldering points or any new parts etc

the way how it was breaking down was sound like something was burned etc also once i was taken out from boot was smells like something is burnt ( not fire but smell like something electronic is burnt if you know what i mean)

so i guess is one of this tricky things, something very small and easy to do but you need technician knowledge who works with this units

maybe one day someone here share his knowledge and save us few quid

 

[alex_78]

small update
after my last cooling improvement amp was ok till yesterday (nearly 3 weeks)
just gone, no noise no overheat it was cold and my extra fan still work...
im really wondering which part fail: capacitor, transistor or something else
i think it must be somethings mall and easy coz as i mentioned before my amp after fixing don't have anything which obviously looks like new part solder in to circuit board...
today once stop rain i plan to take it out and strip to bits check all capacitors and other bits and if i don't find anything wrong i consider to buy one from merc...
i start to hate this car....

 

[Botus]

if it shows no sign of any worn and or new parts... I think it will be a reflow issue. I also suspect that once they tried it (and it didn't work out) they don't want to cook it again. Once the solder is gone connecting chips to circuit boards no additional cooling fan will sort the issue. And you won't be able to see it.

you have one last chance to see if the Bulgarian lot can re-cook without overdoing it.... or buy a second hand one and see it fail (anywhere from the second you fit to 18 months down the line) an then try cooking that one properly.

Second-hand or new they are stupid money

they have 5 here (but uk post and tax is silly)

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...0.A0.H0.Xw221+amp.TRS0&_nkw=w221+amp&_sacat=0

or maybe here

https://www.mbgtc.de/Teileart/Audio-Navigation-Telefon/Audio-Zubehoer/?baCatnid=221171

 

[alex_78]

@Botus
can you say something more about reflow issue (what that mean exactly in this case)
also by cook you mean heat circuit board up?
if so it was already cook 3 times by bba and issue comes back so i guess Bulgarian don't make anything new

new part from merc i was quoted 922+vat plus coding (1 hour or so labour)
so in that case buying second hand is pointless coz new one comes with merc 2 years warranty

im just wondering if problem is inside amp which make fault repeat or is something wrong in car ...

 

[Botus]

your fault is sadly "normal" it must be rubbish manufacturing of the circuit board.

Reflow is (trying to) re-melt the original solder to remake a bad connection / dry joint / insufficient solder where integrated chips are "part" of a circuit board, failure can be exacerbated by hard use / running at high temps

find someone who gets proper discount on parts and do a deal to split the difference ... some traders / garages will probably get 25% to 40% off that price - and an indy will be half price on labour.... decent ones will still get the same merc warranty (u might save 250 quid)

 

[alex_78]

@Botus

thanks again for your post
to be honest i was fed up and i wasn't even thinking i can get a discount :/ i just order one today from merc and will pickup tomorrow
if need to be coded i probably do that wed coz is earliest service time at my local garage
some people wrote it was plug and play so i see tomorrow once i connect it to my car
then i comeback to my squek in suspension that defo will be cheaper to fix...

 

[John Laidlaw]

@Botus

thanks again for your post
to be honest i was fed up and i wasn't even thinking i can get a discount :/ i just order one today from merc and will pickup tomorrow
if need to be coded i probably do that wed coz is earliest service time at my local garage
some people wrote it was plug and play so i see tomorrow once i connect it to my car
then i comeback to my squek in suspension that defo will be cheaper to fix...

Damn - hope you tried MB Grangemouth, they discount well for us on here!

 

[alex_78]

@John Laidlaw

i called them but discount was only £30 i was told this part is very low margin for merc

anyway to late, now fingers cross that sort problem for good i mean till i can afford w222

 

[John Laidlaw]

@John Laidlaw

i called them but discount was only £30 i was told this part is very low margin for merc

anyway to late, now fingers cross that sort problem for good i mean till i can afford w222

Hope so Alex good luck!

 

[alex_78]

another update:

just pick up new unit from merc

fitted and works as should

no coding required in my case

so i hope is end of this chapter and in worst scenario i have 2 years merc warranty.....

now time to move to suspension squeak

have a great weekend

 

[alex_78]

after one day new amp still works
however i think i start to be paranoid coz once it was cutting off i think weak radio signal (is no dab as far i know) i was panic it will be same story but hopefully problem is now in my head only

@Botus

i have one more question to you (it looks like you know this unit well)
first and second time when my old amp fail i have connected bluetooth receiver to stream music from iphone
(iphone connected to receiver by bluetooth then receiver to car by 3.5 jack via multimedia port in glovebox)

do you think this receiver can be reason of my failure (so fragile amp and signal from receiver) or not ?

third fail of old amp was with receiver removed from car and my extra fan also it was always fail when listen to radio (not mp3 cd etc)

i'm just wondering that will be safe to use this receiver or is better to transfer music to cd or media storage etc

i try to add link to receiver which i used

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222417694240

thanks

 

[Botus]

the amp you have JUST fail (its normal)

....if the vol level using that gadget is "normal" I don't believe its likely it had anything to do with it. just bad luck and coincidence

on the amp front it would be nice to know if its the amplified section that fails or the low level pre amp elements... if the pre amp and other features need for command work, a clever person could fit pre amp RCA outputs to the board ( I had heard someone did that) and then use to drive a decent power amp.

might be a nice side-line for these nerds to get into...

http://www.fidelityaudio.co.uk/