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Water in oil...but where from?

Discussion in 'Engine, Drivetrain, Fuel and Exhaust' started by bob 6600, Apr 28, 2018.

  1. bob 6600

    bob 6600 Senior Member

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    A follow on from my head gasket thread, I am stumped as to where water is getting into the oil. 'Mayo' under the cap but no temperature rise. Evidence of water up the dipstick too. The oil cooler seems ok too so ruled that out (ATF seems clean enough too).

    So, I decided that it was time to tackle the dreaded head gasket. After getting everything off, I was pleased and gutted that the head gasket and head both look fine.

    So, where else can water get into the oil on a W210 E320 CDI OM613 engine? I am assuming the water would have to get in via the cylinder head and that the crankcase has nothing to do with it.

    I don't want to replace the head unless I need to but likewise I don't want to put it back together and still be losing water anywhere.

    Any ideas? A few pics

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  2. flowrider99

    flowrider99 Senior Member

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    Could it just be condensation not burning off due to multiple short journeys? My wifes car always had this "mayo" which has now gone as she is doing longer journeys.
     
  3. om613

    om613 Senior Member

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    No evidence of a G.P. drill out or injector bolt 'fix', Bob?
    Still got my spare 613 head if you need it.
     
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  4. Uncle Benz

    Uncle Benz Senior Member

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    I would have the cylinder head crack/pressure tested if I were you
     
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  5. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    You sure that head gasket wasn't leaking? Number 5 doesn't look like it was sealing very well?
     
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  6. OP
    bob 6600

    bob 6600 Senior Member

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    Definitely not. The amount of gunk was more than a little mayo. And it wouldn't explain a jugful of water every 2-3 days and water in the dipstick.

    GP's have never been drilled that I know of. There is one injector that has been repaired (not by me) and has an M10 bolt in it but has never leaked. Thanks, I will probably take it if mine is shot

    Thanks UB. That is my next mission once I find someone who can do it. Jay @mercland has recommended a place although I didn't want to take the valves out if I can help it.

    No.5 in the pictures is a bit false as the head was turned up and down and that liquid has dripped onto it
     
  7. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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  8. OP
    bob 6600

    bob 6600 Senior Member

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  9. OP
    bob 6600

    bob 6600 Senior Member

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    Head went off to IB Engineering this afternoon. Such a helpful guy with plenty of knowledge - I can see why Jay uses him! Love these 'old school' places, I could have stayed there and chatted for ages! He suspects some gasket failure near one or possibly two cylinders but will pressure test to confirm if the head is ok. Prices are very reasonable too. Thanks again to Jay@Mercland
     
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  10. Pullman

    Pullman Senior Member

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    As LK reply. Looking at photo's there seem to be various places that the head gasket seal is poor. Also there should be a distinct clear seal around each bore. As you can see there are dark patches leading to the holes for the water jacket. This would cause the cooling system to pressurise tho' .... Would agree that the head should be pressure tested by reputable machine shop prior to refitting and maybe a very fine head skim.
    With regard to the oil cooler/heat exchanger ( if you have one ) I would like to point out the oil pressure is far greater than the water pressure and therefore if it's faulty you would get oil in the water system and not water in the oil.

    Silly question....I am not familiar with this engine but.....has it got wet liners? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    hope this helps, Dave
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
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  11. OP
    bob 6600

    bob 6600 Senior Member

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    Had a call around 18.30 to say it has passed the pressure test and was only very slightly bowed but nothing a llght skim won't fix. Tomorrow should be valves out and cleaned, second glow plug drilled and then then skimmed. Should be back together if the valve stem seals turn up otherwise will be Thursday. Meanwhile, I can clean all the parts and bolts ready to go back on and de-grease the engine bay a bit.

    Thanks Dave. i have no idea on wet liners lol. The oil cooler seems OK although the gasket seems very thin. I have ordered a new one from MB so should be OK.

    I am sure now that the gasket was not sealing 100% in a couple of places. As you and LK have said the dark patches seem to be the areas. The engineering place said the same thing.
     
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  12. om613

    om613 Senior Member

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    Bob I was surprised to see your head's water ways looking like a 1960s British engine:( (perhaps it's that gunk you used?)

    Being well used to seeing such things, I was astounded when I stripped my 1999 613 breaker to find them all with no trace of deposits or corrosion, like new.
     
  13. OP
    bob 6600

    bob 6600 Senior Member

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    The engineer also commented on this and I thought it may have been additives but he did say it's not bad and will not cause an issue. I said I don;t care what it looks like as hopefully will never need to see it again! :D
     
  14. Flyinspanner

    Flyinspanner Senior Member

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    My best guess would have been the two cylinders on the left in the photo, lots of carbon across the lower edges of the cylinder edges.
    The light skim and new gasket should see you all good.
    :)
     
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  15. OP
    bob 6600

    bob 6600 Senior Member

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    Head was back yesterday (24hr turnaround!) and I couldn't help myself but put it back on the car even though the sun had gone down.
     
  16. Pathfinder

    Pathfinder Senior Member

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    Not familier with this engine set up, so asking, can water leak through the water pump bearing seal into the crankcase?
     
  17. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    No.
     
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  18. om613

    om613 Senior Member

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    With all this head work, you might as well go the whole hog, Bob.
    New everything, mostly panels.:D
     
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  19. HaydnM

    HaydnM Senior Member

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    Do not forget things like oil coolers, some radiators are joined to the oil coolers, this is to help heat up the oil quicker, overtime the can become porous & allow water into the oil

    Something worth checking
     
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  20. OP
    bob 6600

    bob 6600 Senior Member

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    Well after many days of dismantling, cleaning and almost crying when it didn't start (see K40 thread) it's done! There is still the air con condenser to sort so no fans connected yet, just the rad. Engine finally cranked and I was relieved. No injectors flying out (or rods for that matter!) so everything seems ok for now. I also have to sort the exhaust out as there is a small leak but will be done when the air con is done. Will be a few days or even a week before I know if there is any water loss. The oil sensor started showing errors 2 days before I took it apart due to the muck in the oil but I was hoping a good clean would sort it - apparently not. Sill have an oil sensor problem so will replace it.

    Thank you to everyone who commented and especially those who helped. This job was a big one and an even bigger one for me but I got here in the end!
     

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