What could stop a rear wheel bolt going in properly on C216

[Submariner1]

just finished polishing my newly refurbished wheels

When along with the 3 scratched bolt recesses noticed on collection ...
It looks like one bolt (top right) is sticking out 8-10mm more than the others.


The weird thing is I didn't notice it before, but then I was looking at the scratch.

Interested what mechanically could stop a bolt going into a rear hub properly? ( note no work was done on the car other than take wheels off put on donors, and refit)

Is the hub a " Blind" hole or does it go right through. Just wondering if there was too much paint on the hole of the wheel, could the bolt push a load of paint into the hub, and if its a blind hole, fillthe end with paint stopping the bolt going in.

Of course it could be one of the following
1 Not tight enough and is just coming out?? Is that possible just one on its own??? :-/
2 when Mercedes sold me the new bolts one was much longer and I just didnt notice. Very much doubt it as I normally hold them up to an old one.
3. They stripped a thread and it won't go in all the way ... my nightmare.

The weird thing is this is a picture I took when I was documenting the scratches to them


It looks properly in, but one cant really tell in that picture... how countersunk it looks, seems to depend a lot on the angle of the camera. Need to dig out some other pics I took on my phone to be sure.
Need to see it in the daylight

But it is definitely sticking out 8mm more than the other bolts.

My concern is when they were doing up the lug nuts, the technician seemed to have to work at it.
When I replaced the bolts before ... they just spun up by hand, easy peasy as I had greased them with coppa slip ( yeah I know )
He was using a 600mm bar.

TBH my tolerance zone is nearing its end with this wheel company, **** it m even I can put a frigging wheel on without scratching it or stripping threads.
Boy do I wish I had gone to Specialist Wheels in Fareham.

 

[LostKiwi]

The holes are not blind (too long bolts can hit the parking brake mechanism). I'd say that bolt is cross threaded (has been cross theeaded) and the threads are damaged. Pull the wheel off and try without the wheel to confirm.

 

[star]

Did they strip some threads then?

 

[flowrider]

Are the bolts chrome or are they caps? Have you removed the bolt and looked at the threads on the bolt and hub?

 

[KennyN]

Normally the security bolt is slightly shorter than the rest , is it possible that the hole that has the "problem" bolt originally had the locking bolt and the thread is corroded preventing the new bolt from going in fully ?

Either that or the threads on the new bolt are damaged or have been cross threaded.

Kenny

 

[television]

Surely its a way of removing by removing the wheel to see what is all wrong.

 

[Submariner1]

Thanks Guys, your comments pretty much mirrored my thoughts.

I asked your opinions before speaking to the company; purely because they are not customer friendly.
Buy that I mean when I found another recess damaged, and spoke to the manager. I got the proverbial you must bring it in so we can see it.
As its a 3 hour round trip, and I do have a 53 MPS professional camera and pro Lens costing £8,000, I argued he could have an enormous image. He only climbed down from his position of bringing it in, when I said but your guys not only saw the damage on 2 recesses, but also even touched one of them up!

My fear was they had cross threaded it, and was thinking how much is a rear hub with an Electronic Parking Brake?? Fortuneately parts department say there is a detachable plate with the threaded holes that bolts onto to the hub carrierand its a lot cheaper. Rather than a complete rear hub that is hundreds of £.

So armed with your good thoughts, especially KennyN's idea of a semi corroded thread due to a shorted locking nut (but I dont think its that, as the old non-mercedes locking nuts were changed and all the wheel bolts were renewed, so slim chance that both times I put the bolts in the same holes.) I am now in a position to speak to the wheel company.

Hopefully they will accept the pictures and allow me to take off the wheel, and not say I did it.
If not then I shall take it to the main dealer, get a report and a price to do the report and fix it. And then they can pay it ...

Fortunately on safety and gross negligence grounds, I wont have to give them the opportunity to fix it.
Plus if they cant put on a wheel without stripping a thread. No way am I going to let monkeys like that undo my rear gub and electronic parking brake.

My big fear is ... they seemed to have real difficulty putting in the bolts, on all the wheels, god help,them if they have stripped more hubs.

Not naming and shaming them yet, asI require their help. And in fairness if they sort it without a hassle then that would suffice.
Think its fair to give them the opportunity to rectify it.

Of course it could just be they took out the bolt to touch up the scrape-mark and forgot to put it in properly ?? But I just dont feel that lucky.

 

[Submariner1]

Spoke to the manager. He said well sometimes they come across wheels that have already been cross threaded. And they just take them out and use a tap and die and put them back in. :-0

I said well the car had a B service and they informed me 3 wheels were slightly buckled, so I doubt they were cross threaded, and when you put on my donor wheels your guys had no problems.
So as they fitted the refurbished wheels snd now the bolt is not sested properly I would put this cross theading ( if it is cross threaded) down to your guys!

He agreed it was OK for me to take the wheel off to investigate what the problem was.

 

[television]

Has someone tapped and changed, that I not good

 

[JBell]

Spoke to the manager. He said well sometimes they come across wheels that have already been cross threaded. And they just take them out and use a tap and die and put them back in. :-0

Nothing wrong with that at all!!!

He agreed it was OK for me to take the wheel off to investigate what the problem was.

Why would you need his permission?? The first thing you should have done is to remove the wheel and investigate i.e take it off and screw a bolt into the hole only using your fingers, see how far it goes in, you can compare by putting bolts into any other hole using the same process!!!!

 

[Submariner1]

Oh terrific!
Damaged threads on bolt ... wont go in the hole on the wheel properly
An Undamaged bolt wont go in the hole on the hub = buggered hub thread! Or am I wrong?


How did that happen, I looked at wheel holes, one was filled with paint

The bolts slides through the other holes easily, on this one you have to work it through.
And it sits at an angle.
I suspect this excess paint made the bolt go in at an angle ... then they forced it , screwed the thread of the bolt, that in turn chewed up the hub thread.
Or am I so wrong.??

A normal hole


Company suggested just tapping the hub thread in situ.
Mercedes said no ... replace the hub, plus to do it in situ would dump the swarf into the brake hub, and could screw up the handbrake and the electronic parking brake.
Course the wheel company say it works ... yes it probably would get you down the road, but what happens 2,000 miles later when your rear brakes screw up. Oh I am sure they will help you and put it all right... my arse!

My big fear is, I saw them fighting just getting the bolts in on other hubs! Maybe they cross threaded a bolt hole in every single hub.

I wont be happy until I have taken off every wheel! To asses it for myself.

Plus I really dont want them mending my hubs!
Just dont like the cowboy, quick and dirty fix philosophy.

Gut feel this will go legal ... when they see the main dealer quote to replace a few hubs

 

[KennyN]

I would just tap the hub in situ, it is only one hole and you are just cleaning up the thread and not cutting a completely new one.

For all the metal you will be removing it will get caught in the grooves in the tap providing a cutting compound is used so no swarf will get into the hub.

Clean the excess paint from the wheel , from the inside, and you will be good to go.

No point in making this more complex and involved than it needs to be.

Kenny

 

[LostKiwi]

Agree with Kenny.
Grease the tap and any swarf (will only be a tiny amount) will stick to the grease. Run a die over the bolts as well.
You get more rubbish in the hub/brake just from general usage.

 

[umblecumbuz]

Yet that bolt does not look as if it's been seriously cross-threaded.

To my weary eyes, there is only a minor amount of thread deformity, the first three threads up from the start. If you don't have a die, then careful dressing of those threads should restore the integrity of the bolt - jewellers or needle files will help to do this.

If there is more serious thread damage, it will be in the hub, and a good tap will probably sort it.

Umble

 

[Craiglxviii]

1148 words to get to a crossed thread...! This has to be a new record!

 

[television]

1148 words to get to a crossed thread...! This has to be a new record!

He never talks to me at all, I have a very good 216 with everything possible

 

[umblecumbuz]

1148 words to get to a crossed thread...! This has to be a new record!

Dang! I wish I had the time to count those words!

... now 1189 words - and counting?

Umble

 

[JBell]

1148 words to get to a crossed thread...! This has to be a new record!

I have popcorn out for this one

 

[Submariner1]

So the consensus is :-
- cross threading the thread in the hub and tightening it to 150 Nm, and then retapping it wont compromise the integrity of the hub thread?

Surprised at that, but willing to be educated. Putting the other bolt back to where it was it feels like screwing into almost set epoxy glue.

Hopefully the rain will stop, and I can check the other wheels as they had problems getting the bolts into other holes.

From the rear it looks like the bolt started to ovalate the hole in the wheel i.e. Cut a thread.


How the other holes with no problem look

I am assuming that wont matter, as there is play in the hole anyway.

The manager wants the car back, "leave it here and we sort it all out"

I'm not majorly keen on that:-
- they "fix it" and next time the wheel has to come off, when you torque it up to 150 Nm it wont lock up.
- its a megga busy cramped yard, with guys walking by carrying 2 wheels ... one overhanging your bonnet as they squeeze by ( can see damage happening) , the next car is so close the jack handle on the next car swings down 1" from your car.
- when they fitted the new wheels I has to park next to a big door, this was open and I could smell paint, 3 ft from the door is a bumper being sprayed, so in total 5 feet away someone is spraying 2 pack paint ... if I hadnt asked them to shut the door I reckon my nicely clayed bonnet would have a good dose of overspray.

Personally I'd rather Take the car to my Mercedes main dealer, or a good Indy, and if it needs a new hub they can fit it , and if in their opinion it can be retapped, if its only a few threads, then let them do it, and get the wheel guys to collect any faulty wheels and redo them and ship then back to Mercedes to fit them.

And if it costs a lot ... tough, thats what they have public liability insurance for!

I am a trifle surprised so many of you are happy having a bodged repair.
The car went in with perfect hubs, they charged a reasonable rate £420 for a top job, but damaged the hubs and now to save themselves money they want to compromise the vehicle's integrity.

Hmmm

 

[Craiglxviii]

Another 421...