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When I floor it the car judders

Discussion in 'Engine, Drivetrain, Fuel and Exhaust' started by jshodgson, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. jshodgson

    jshodgson Active Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    E320 cdi sport 2007
    if I floor the accelerator at low speeds (15-20mph) the car accelerates but instead of changing gear it shudders and the ESP light flickers on and off. It doesn't do it at faster speeds.
     
  2. Naraic

    Naraic Moderator

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    The ESP light is because you are losing traction as you floor it.
     
  3. Wighty

    Wighty Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    W211/E320cdi/2009 and CLK200k 2009
    As above , wheels are slipping , have you just bourght the car and or got cheap worn rear tyres on . These cars put a huge amount of torque through the rear wheels , especially if it is damp or greasy ??
     
  4. OP
    jshodgson

    jshodgson Active Member

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    E320 cdi sport 2007
    Yes just bought the car. The tyres look budget and have about 3mm left on them. If I turn off the ESP will that stop the juddering if it is the tyres that are to blame? Might try it tomorrow if that is the case and report back.
     
  5. Headhurts

    Headhurts Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    E350 Night Edition Estate/2016/Diesel
    As others have said, lots of torque, cheap tyres, not much tread = loss of grip.

    Robin


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  6. PaulG

    PaulG Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    Ml320CDI 2007
    As the Late John Surtees (the only man to be world champion on 2 and 4 wheels) used to say....

    "the throttle goes poth ways"
     
  7. Wighty

    Wighty Senior Member

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    With cheap worn "monkey" tyres , moving into winter with wet and greasy roads , you have a powerful rear wheel drive car that can twitch the back end on a roundabout in the dry , you are asking for problems .
    Have a look at camskills website for online tyres , maybe check out the prices for Uniroyal Rainsport tyres which depending on size have some very good prices .
    Any tyre make you put on the rear that you have actually heard of will help . Put some tree lopers in the boot with a tow rope , it will make it easier to get the car out of a ditch in the meantime :D . (Good luck )
     
  8. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    '93 500SL-32, '01 W210 Estate E240, 04 Smart Roadster Coupe
    IF you turn off the ESP be very careful unless you are comfortable with oversteer....
     
    AMGeed likes this.
  9. PaulG

    PaulG Senior Member

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    jshodgson, the point I was trying to make is that you have plenty enough power to overcome the grip of the rear tyres, particularly as you are effectively only driving one of them due to differential action.

    This is all well and good IF YOU WANT TO. Even the best tyres will have their limits of grip, espeically on diesel-covered city streets in the wet. The whole idea of the ESP is to put a brake (literally) on this situation to prevent the back-end overtaking the front and you becoming another Youtube star.

    The action of the ESP can feel a bit brutal (the shuddering you referred to), but it works in keeping the car pointing roughly in the right direction.

    Turn the ESP off if you feel up to it, or if you want to smoke out the tyres and impress teenage boys passing by..

    Alternatively, modulate the throttle in the way advised by John Surtees....
     
    stwat likes this.
  10. Botus

    Botus Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
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    having driven these I'm surprised anyone thinks its got enough grunt to light up the tyres.

    but lets run with the idea.

    -vehicle has been chipped
    then yes, it could light them up

    - round and black
    Old hard rubber
    Too high a tyre pressure
    Cheap nasty brands

    - worn out,
    diff mounts
    dampers

    On a Merc you can reduce the traction control sensitivity
    to turn it off needs you to go in the cluster display special menus and select dyno mode
    then other toys like cruise turn off and when you take the key out you end up back in veg mode

    last point, a loss of traction is a failure of the drive line and suspension systems... its their job to keep you on the road.... your job is to try as hard as possible to light them up
     
  11. OP
    jshodgson

    jshodgson Active Member

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    E320 cdi sport 2007
    Update..
    Checked the tyre condition and pressure - all fine.
    Waited for a warm dry day on a good section of flat road and floored it at 15mph. The car accelerated to 30ish then shuddered heavily till I released the accelerator. No ESP light.
    I then drove normally to a dual carriage way and tried to floor it again and the car refused to accelerate. I even manually shifted down gear but couldn't get it above 50mph. Stopped the car and started again and went back to the dual carriage way and it was back to normal and accelerated as it should. I got no error or warnings on the dash throughout.
    It doesn't feel normal to me.
     
  12. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    That sounds like it goes into limp mode but isn't lighting the engine management light. When you turn the key on does the EML light up as it should?
    A previous owner may have removed the bulb before you bought it. Sounds like it needs a STAR session to read any codes.
     
  13. EmilysDad

    EmilysDad Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
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    it does sound similar to the problem I have on my R320 https://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/index.php?threads/new-turbo-alternatives.163932/ Diagnosed last week at a Merc specialist as needing a new turbo & actuator ....... :eek:
    It looks to be more accessible on your car than mine. ;)
     
  14. OP
    jshodgson

    jshodgson Active Member

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    Yes the EML light comes on and goes out as it should. I've booked in for a service next week.
    On checking the service history it seems this problem has existed for a while. 2015 service - check power loss under acceleration. They replaced a back pressure sensor.
    2016 service- check for lack of power under hard acceleration/limp mode. They changed a swirl flap motor and a glow plug and relay.
    The car has only done 5000 miles since the 2015 service so I would imagine the fault has not been fully fixed.
     
  15. OP
    jshodgson

    jshodgson Active Member

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  16. EmilysDad

    EmilysDad Senior Member

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    I'm going for a refurb'd actuator before I get the box of matches .... :D
     
  17. OP
    jshodgson

    jshodgson Active Member

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    Please let me know how you get on.
     
    EmilysDad likes this.
  18. EmilysDad

    EmilysDad Senior Member

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    I will, but it'll be a couple of weeks before I do.
     
  19. Steve@Avantgarde

    Steve@Avantgarde Forum Supporter Authorised Forum Supporter

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    Sounds like a nailed on turbo jam or inlet port shut off motor failing.

    The EML light will only generate if it sees 3 consecutive faults or the fault is live, even if the engine limps, it will wait for an ignition cycle before turning the light on because it will pulse/move the component whilst it is in the limp mode operation. If the component self test's ok, it won't turn the light on, the system will wait for the ignition to be recycled. (which is why some faults disappear when this happens).

    STAR test first and then process the fault codes from there.
     
  20. EmilysDad

    EmilysDad Senior Member

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    In my case, apparently Star said it was triggering over boost pressure ..... you need a new turbo & actuator (& new inlet port motor while we're there )...ker-ching
     

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