Yet another issue with the V12

Arudge

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Merc-Coz-oil-filter_zpsvsphbf6s.png

This is a drawing from a 190. I know it's not a M275 but it is Mercedes and Mercedes don't tend to change their core principles much, which is why i like them.

A is the feed from the oil pump. You'll quickly notice that oil can go one of two directions, i can carry on up to the filter or it can double back through items 4 & 6, this is the bypass valve and allows unfiltered oil into the main gallery, marked B.

As the oil thins as it gets warmer more goes through the filter and less through the bypass. But as the filter becomes blocked, more goes through the bypass again. Dirty oil is better than no oil at oil.
 
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alexanderfoti

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Merc-Coz-oil-filter_zpsvsphbf6s.png

This is a drawing from a 190. I know it's not a M275 but it is Mercedes and Mercedes don't tend to change their core principles much, which is why i like them.

A is the feed from the oil pump. You'll quickly notice that oil can go one of two directions, i can carry on up to the filter or it can double back through items 4 & 6, this is the bypass valve and allows unfiltered oil into the main gallery, marked B.

As the oil thins as it gets warmer more goes through the filter and less through the bypass. But as the filter becomes blocked, more goes through the bypass again. Dirty oil is better than no oil at oil.

I agree its probably the same. Considering the state of the collapsed filter its probably oil going through the filter/bypassing the filter and going through the relief valve that is causing the noise.

Maybe I should put some 0w40 in it instead of 5w40....
 

Arudge

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Is it possible to remove the filter for a day and see if that could be related to anything ??
This not as mad or bad as it sounds.

That noise is definitely rotary. I'm clutching at straws here but.....if no oil is going through the filter and its all being forced through the bypass, that would put more strain on the pump drive, which is usually a chain, could this be a scuffing noise caused by the extra load?
 
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alexanderfoti

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This not as mad or bad as it sounds.

That noise is definitely rotary. I'm clutching at straws here but.....if no oil is going through the filter and its all being forced through the bypass, that would put more strain on the pump drive, which is usually a chain, could this be a scuffing noise caused by the extra load?

Im going to take the filter out tomorrow and have a look down the housing, you never know if something has fallen in...
 

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Just found the OP's post on MB world regards same issue on the other side of the pond.

Our American friend ran 1000 miles on Shell Rotella HD oil, which appeared to cure his issue. Shell Rotella is an oil designed for trucks and has a very strong detergent to strip out heavy diesel deposits often found in big diesel trucks......food for thought.....
 
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Just found the OP's post on MB world regards same issue on the other side of the pond.

Our American friend ran 1000 miles on Shell Rotella HD oil, which appeared to cure his issue. Shell Rotella is an oil designed for trucks and has a very strong detergent to strip out heavy diesel deposits often found in big diesel trucks......food for thought.....
Is that not the one for the engine rattle?
 
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alexanderfoti

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I couldn't play the sound file so made an assumption as the other criteria appeared to match, sorry.

This is an engine of many sounds!

And my c63 has an exhaust leak..... chuff chuff chuff chuff chuff
 

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actually there could be something in the high detergent oil. I know you can use any oil in any engine (as far as petrol or diesel is concerned, I'm not talking about the specs here) but years ago dad had a high mileage Cortina (with the Pinto engine) which he ran on high detergent diesel oil (which was the main difference between regular and diesel oil, from what I can gather). anyhow, those that know these engines know that they had an oil spray pipe over the cam which was prone to blocking and the cam would wear out quickly. our car had the oil changed every 3k miles or so (the oil was free to us) and the cam or the oil spray pipe suffered NO wear outside of what would be correct on an engine without the spray issues, and the pipe and engine internals were remarkably clean, all things considered (it had near enough 100k miles on which was still rare in the 80s)

anyhow, as high detergent oil keeps the oil viscosity more than oil with an oil flush, I wonder if using high detergent oil for a couple of thousand miles of relatively sedate (not thrashing it) driving, just to clean out some of the cr@p might actually be a good idea? (or of course if time is of the essence, an oil flush could be used, possibly followed by 1k miles or so with detergent oil to get the remaining crud out?) just a thought
 

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actually there could be something in the high detergent oil. I know you can use any oil in any engine (as far as petrol or diesel is concerned, I'm not talking about the specs here) but years ago dad had a high mileage Cortina (with the Pinto engine) which he ran on high detergent diesel oil (which was the main difference between regular and diesel oil, from what I can gather). anyhow, those that know these engines know that they had an oil spray pipe over the cam which was prone to blocking and the cam would wear out quickly. our car had the oil changed every 3k miles or so (the oil was free to us) and the cam or the oil spray pipe suffered NO wear outside of what would be correct on an engine without the spray issues, and the pipe and engine internals were remarkably clean, all things considered (it had near enough 100k miles on which was still rare in the 80s)

anyhow, as high detergent oil keeps the oil viscosity more than oil with an oil flush, I wonder if using high detergent oil for a couple of thousand miles of relatively sedate (not thrashing it) driving, just to clean out some of the cr@p might actually be a good idea? (or of course if time is of the essence, an oil flush could be used, possibly followed by 1k miles or so with detergent oil to get the remaining crud out?) just a thought
The Pinto engine was a good solid engine, a bit basic but a solid workhorse. Yes, it suffered top end oil starvation, hence my comment about getting oil up to the cam deck, but this is a common problem with a lot of engines, not least my V8 P38 Range Rover.
Diesels suffer a lot more blow-by than petrol largely because of their increased compression, those contaminants can't be realistically be filtered out so the oil's chemistry is leant toward holding the contaminants within the body of the oil, hence the detergents.

I'm a bit wary of using Rotella in a free revving petrol engine like mine. Will it hold together in a small bore supercharged motor like mine? I'll leave that question to the more experienced members.
 

oigle

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Rotella is available in 5W/40 viscosity so no issues there. It is an excellent oil. I see no reason why it could not be used in your engine. It is sold as a multi-function oil for all purposes.
Ian.
 
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alexanderfoti

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Not a bad idea, but doesn't seem to be available in the UK.
 

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Not a bad idea, but doesn't seem to be available in the UK.
MB 229.51 in 20L 5w-30 is £53 delivered from eBay , it has additional detergents because it's for modern diesels , is that a halfway house compared to the Rotella .
 

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Had a quick look and it appears Shell Rimula is the equivalent for Rotella in Europe. Rimula is considered a more refined oil for the European market. Some of the Rotella products aren't suitable for some catalitic converters due to its higher zinc content.

Out of my depth here, over to you Ian.
 

Arudge

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Why are we getting photobucket ransom messages?
 

oigle

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We have Rimula here too but only in 15W/40 viscosity. It is considered to be the highest detergent/dispersant oil produced by Shell for diesels. Was first designed for Caterpillar diesels at their request but that was a long time ago.
I would just go for the highest detergent 5W/40 or 5W/30 diesel oil you can find.
All cars have cats these days so I would be surprised if either Rotella or Rimula would be available in a form that would harm a cat - but I don't know for sure. My knowledge base is too old now. I used Rimula in my ML270 for many years whilst I was still towing my van but have switched to Ultra 5W/40 as I do much less mileage now and more cold running. Rimula was great.
 

LostKiwi

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Why are we getting photobucket ransom messages?
Because photobucket are money grubbing bar stewards who decided to charge to link to photos you store if you put them elsewhere on the web - the same functionality that every other photo hosting company does for free.
 

Arudge

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Sorry, phosphorus not zinc.

Wiki extract.

Rotella oils like T3 15w-40 meets both the API CJ-4 and SM specifications, and may be used in both gasoline and diesel engines. However, it is formulated specifically for vehicles without catalytic converters, containing phosphorus levels beyond the 600-800ppm range.[1] Therefore, Rotella is not recommended for gasoline vehicles with catalytic converters due to the higher risk of damaging these emission controls.[2] Newer formulations of Rotella T6 however are API SM rated as safe for pre-2011 gasoline vehicles.
 

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Make sure the V Belt is not contaminated or worn out.
In fact remove it and see if the noise stops,
with the engine off spin pulleys and check for wear/noise.

:)
 


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