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Old 20-03-2017, 06:16 AM
Frosty149 Frosty149 is offline
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Default Future Diesel Clamp-Down?

Just confirmed a remap with GAD for my E350 coupe.
Question is, the govt. is making lots of noise about diesel emissions and it therefore seems likely that some legislation changes will arrive - as the EGR will be isolated am I/we vulnerable in this respect?
Not having much knowledge of the technicalities involved, I thought I'd seek some answers here....
Any thoughts?
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Old 20-03-2017, 08:23 AM
geraldrobins geraldrobins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty149 View Post
Just confirmed a remap with GAD for my E350 coupe.
Question is, the govt. is making lots of noise about diesel emissions and it therefore seems likely that some legislation changes will arrive - as the EGR will be isolated am I/we vulnerable in this respect?
Not having much knowledge of the technicalities involved, I thought I'd seek some answers here....
Any thoughts?
If EGR removal affects the emissions controls surely its illegal unless reported to the DVLA? Whether it can be detected is another question.
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Old 20-03-2017, 08:29 AM
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JBell JBell is offline
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When GAD did my 350CDi they did nothing to the EGR.
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Old 20-03-2017, 08:36 AM
yorkshire1 yorkshire1 is offline
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at the moment the MOT solely relies on visual component inspection and or the tester turning a blind eye to a components presence namely CAT and DPF if both or either were fitted from new. The car will pass the MOT regardless of components so long as the emissions are ok.

At the moment the gov is looking into ways of detecting whether or not the DPF has been tampered with (ie gutted).

personally if I was having modifications done to a vehicle I would want to keep the CAT and/or DPF for future replacement if it becomes necessary as they will be very expensive to replace if youve had them gutted or the tuner has kept them (to sell back to you at a later date!!!)
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Old 20-03-2017, 09:21 AM
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flowrider99 flowrider99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkshire1 View Post
at the moment the MOT solely relies on visual component inspection and or the tester turning a blind eye to a components presence namely CAT and DPF if both or either were fitted from new. The car will pass the MOT regardless of components so long as the emissions are ok.

At the moment the gov is looking into ways of detecting whether or not the DPF has been tampered with (ie gutted).

personally if I was having modifications done to a vehicle I would want to keep the CAT and/or DPF for future replacement if it becomes necessary as they will be very expensive to replace if youve had them gutted or the tuner has kept them (to sell back to you at a later date!!!)
This has been my concern with removing the secondary CAT's on my SL500, what if I get a clued up MOT tester and he fails me for not having all 4 CAT's fitted, only 2. I have held off having the work done for now.
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Old 20-03-2017, 11:24 AM
Scoob Scoob is offline
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The EGR is "software deleted" IIRC, meaning it's present it just doesn't open.

While EGR's are designed to reduce emissions by recirculating exhaust gasses in certain driving scenarios (cold engine, light throttle) this can cause issues long-term. Remember, the car is taking dirty, sooty - pre-DPF - exhaust gasses and sucking them back into the engine, bypassing the air-filter as well of course. The "sooty" exhaust gasses gradually clog up the EGR, and other components, causing longer-term emission and running issues. Remember, it's not clean, filtered air being mixed with fuel when the EGR is open, it also includes dirty exhaust gasses.

The thinking is, as I understand it, is that when a car is cold it over-fuels. This leads to incomplete combustion, so there is still "fuel" in the exhaust gasses. Feeding this around to be burnt again is, in theory, an ok idea. Plus the engine should warm up sooner. However, wouldn't not over-fuelling be a better option? The fact that fuel is un-burnt proves the engine doesn't need it...maybe I'm missing something.

I went through all this with my Focus. I left my EGR functional, but I had to clean it regularly (6 months or so) after my initial BIG clean to keep the car running nice. It was 80% clogged, and used to stick slightly open, robbing power and causing over-fuelling as the air/fuel mix was wrong. I quite like tinkering in this way, so was happy to do it and have the car run as well, and as clean, as it possibly could. However, the amount of effort required to keep the EGR working would likely be unacceptable to many, and thus get ignored = higher emissions. Or they end up out of pocket paying someone else to do it.

So, in my opinion, whatever increased emissions there my be during the limited scenarios the EGR is open, are more than counter-balanced by an EGR-deletes longer-term savings of time, money and emissions.

Scoob.
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Old 20-03-2017, 04:30 PM
geraldrobins geraldrobins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoob View Post
The EGR is "software deleted" IIRC, meaning it's present it just doesn't open.

While EGR's are designed to reduce emissions by recirculating exhaust gasses in certain driving scenarios (cold engine, light throttle) this can cause issues long-term. Remember, the car is taking dirty, sooty - pre-DPF - exhaust gasses and sucking them back into the engine, bypassing the air-filter as well of course. The "sooty" exhaust gasses gradually clog up the EGR, and other components, causing longer-term emission and running issues. Remember, it's not clean, filtered air being mixed with fuel when the EGR is open, it also includes dirty exhaust gasses.

The thinking is, as I understand it, is that when a car is cold it over-fuels. This leads to incomplete combustion, so there is still "fuel" in the exhaust gasses. Feeding this around to be burnt again is, in theory, an ok idea. Plus the engine should warm up sooner. However, wouldn't not over-fuelling be a better option? The fact that fuel is un-burnt proves the engine doesn't need it...maybe I'm missing something.

I went through all this with my Focus. I left my EGR functional, but I had to clean it regularly (6 months or so) after my initial BIG clean to keep the car running nice. It was 80% clogged, and used to stick slightly open, robbing power and causing over-fuelling as the air/fuel mix was wrong. I quite like tinkering in this way, so was happy to do it and have the car run as well, and as clean, as it possibly could. However, the amount of effort required to keep the EGR working would likely be unacceptable to many, and thus get ignored = higher emissions. Or they end up out of pocket paying someone else to do it.

So, in my opinion, whatever increased emissions there my be during the limited scenarios the EGR is open, are more than counter-balanced by an EGR-deletes longer-term savings of time, money and emissions.

Scoob.
Thats interesting but I suppose technically removing the EGR or disabling it shouldnt be done. I have never had any EGR issues so are they common?
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Old 20-03-2017, 10:52 PM
Frosty149 Frosty149 is offline
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Gents, an update following my visit to GAD Essex:

The EGR is in position, but isolated electronically (no error messsages etc), DPF and cat's not touched or affected, assurance that current emissions legislation will be met (baring any unrelated issues).
Of course we can't predict what changes to the current regs may occur, but it's clear that something's afoot!

Have to say though the drive home was bloody great, someone planted a bigger engine in my car whilst I enjoyed breakfast!!! The transformation is impressive, much more responsive!

Thanks for the responses so far...

Chris
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Old 21-03-2017, 06:03 AM
Steve@Avantgarde Steve@Avantgarde is offline
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With all the covers and under trays fitted to cars these days, if the DPF is removed sympathetically, it would not be obvious to the most trained eye...
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