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Old 11-10-2009, 11:20 AM
joe1972 joe1972 is offline
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Default W124 E300 diesel... Poor diesel? Vegi oil?! How strong are the injection pumps?

Hi again all.

I've been loggin on and following the multiple starting issues on this forum with interest, now that the cold/wet season in the UK as starting.

Unfortunately, my diesel mb now has an issue, or maybe just a hiccup.....

At motorway type speeds I was getting poor throttle response, and occasional coughs from the engine. Having read similar experiences on here, I've set to and replaced the main fuel filter. Sure enough the filter was full of bits and generally in a bad state. When I bought the car not so long ago it was obvious from the smell when running that the former owner had been running it on biodiesel or vegi oil, so my thoughts are the crap in the filter is the legacy from this.

So now I have a car with a fresh fuel filter.......but it won't start!?
I've been careful to drag fresh fuel from the tank, and don't think I have an air lock from tank to filter.

However, from bad Vauxhall diesel experiences I'm feeling something is coming back to haunt me......

Has the diesel injection pump died? How strong are they? The GM pumps were renowned not to be strong enough for the vegi fans, but much has been aired on how good MB cars are with alternative fuels. I'd rather run mine on straight diesel, particularly as it looks unmodified, but worried that the history of the previous owner running the car on potentially hi viscosity bio/vegi oil has damaged something, and over time of vegi abuse it's finally given up?

I would value some experience and thoughts? and pointers to get the car started!

thanks
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w124 E300 Diesel L plate
w201 190e G plate

Last edited by joe1972; 11-10-2009 at 11:25 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-10-2009, 11:31 AM
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turbopete turbopete is offline
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i have an 210 e300 turbodiesel. i believe that may have been run on vegi oil or similar in the past and that may be the cause of my poor starting/non start when hot. it can dry out and ruin the standard seals. the modification is to fit modified seals, i believe, having read many articles on the internet. speaking from experience with my car, they are an absolute pain to bleed. if i end up getting my pump rebuilt i may enquire about upgraded seals so i can then try to get waste oil from the local chippy etc, filter it and rum my car for (almost) free
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previous: W203 C220 CDi manual (sold and missed) W210 E300 TURBODIESEL (gone), W202 C250 TURBODIESEL manual (R.I.P (fire)), W202 C220 DIESEL manual (my 1st merc. R.I.P.),
mk3 Fiesta, mk3,4&7 Escorts, mk2 Orions, Sierra Sapphire mk2, mk3 Granada ghia, Transit, Metro, Citroen zx, mk1 Cortina, Puma, Focus, Mondeos, among others (mostly Ford)........
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:34 AM
simon_wall69 simon_wall69 is offline
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Make sure the new filter is full before filling and that you have a good seal and then it takes ages of cranking to finally start. May well be whole battery.

My old E300 did 30,000 miles or so on veg with no problems apart from o rings on the fuel lines going - this could have happened to you and you have air in the lines. Very common.

The pumps generally last - my previous car had done over 400,000 miles and the pump still pumped veg oil.
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w123 300d auto (sold, sadly)
w124 e300 td auto to replace the written off e300 d
w126 560sel (beast; now gone home to Germany to become part of someone's 190e)

Last edited by simon_wall69; 11-10-2009 at 11:35 AM. Reason: spelling mistake!
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:45 AM
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roadhog roadhog is offline
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I've been running mine on SVO for the past 43k miles in varying degrees of mix, quite often 100%. My car is not modified in any way and other than more regular fuel filter changes at first, I have not had any problems.

Two things spring to mind, did you replace the inline pre-filter at the same time? If you could see bits in the main filter (I've never seen that on mine) the chances are that the little plastic one is blocked too.
Also it is remotely possible that the strainer in the tank may be gunked up. This would be due to the veg oil cleaning your tank of all the diesel residue and not the other way round. Veg oil is quite a good detergent and will make a lovely job of your tank. The more serious Veg oil fraternity in Germany recommend removal of the tank strainer altogether but I've not felt the need to go that far.

I have had one problem when I changed the fuel filters once and the car wouldn't start. I put the old filter back and it did so went and got the new one changed and it was fine.

AFAIK, the injector pumps are as strong as they come and, being inline rather than rotary, very well suited for alternative fuel. Vauxhall pumps were/are rotary I believe.

The choice of fuel for your car is obviously yours but you have the most suitable car for running veg oil there and at (currently) 35 ppl saving I know which I'll continue to use.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:50 AM
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roadhog roadhog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbopete View Post
i have an 210 e300 turbodiesel. i believe that may have been run on vegi oil or similar in the past and that may be the cause of my poor starting/non start when hot. it can dry out and ruin the standard seals. the modification is to fit modified seals, i believe, having read many articles on the internet. speaking from experience with my car, they are an absolute pain to bleed. if i end up getting my pump rebuilt i may enquire about upgraded seals so i can then try to get waste oil from the local chippy etc, filter it and rum my car for (almost) free
Sorry TP, that is complete myth IMHO. You need to look elsewhere for blame
for your starting problems.
The reason the seal may start to leak is that the veg oil softens them up after years of being dried out. AFAIK there are no modified seals specifically for veg oil use and people just replace with new standard items. Whether they have been modified for other reasons or not I don't know.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:04 PM
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turbopete turbopete is offline
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it was something i read on a pump reconditioners website that said there were modified (different material) seals that were better suited to veg oil useage than the standard rubber items. i know nothing about the seals so can only judge from what i read. if i can find a cheap/free source of waste oil though (which may be where the modified seals come in) i would seriously consider it as fuel prices are getting out of hand now!
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previous: W203 C220 CDi manual (sold and missed) W210 E300 TURBODIESEL (gone), W202 C250 TURBODIESEL manual (R.I.P (fire)), W202 C220 DIESEL manual (my 1st merc. R.I.P.),
mk3 Fiesta, mk3,4&7 Escorts, mk2 Orions, Sierra Sapphire mk2, mk3 Granada ghia, Transit, Metro, Citroen zx, mk1 Cortina, Puma, Focus, Mondeos, among others (mostly Ford)........
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:07 PM
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roadhog roadhog is offline
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I run SVO rather than WVO as the latter is a lot harder to get hold of than is commonly believed. It's still a fair saving though.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:13 PM
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turbopete turbopete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadhog View Post
I run SVO rather than WVO as the latter is a lot harder to get hold of than is commonly believed. It's still a fair saving though.
i have a mate that deals in cooking oil though if i cant get it from the local chippy etc. he used to make biodiesel but he doesnt bother much now as at least 1 of his vans wont run on it as its a euro4 engine
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previous: W203 C220 CDi manual (sold and missed) W210 E300 TURBODIESEL (gone), W202 C250 TURBODIESEL manual (R.I.P (fire)), W202 C220 DIESEL manual (my 1st merc. R.I.P.),
mk3 Fiesta, mk3,4&7 Escorts, mk2 Orions, Sierra Sapphire mk2, mk3 Granada ghia, Transit, Metro, Citroen zx, mk1 Cortina, Puma, Focus, Mondeos, among others (mostly Ford)........
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2009, 12:48 PM
simon_wall69 simon_wall69 is offline
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Be careful of the local chippy route. Most don't cook in veg oil - they use this white lardy type stuff that is very, very viscous when cold.

As RH said, WVO is hard to get as there are many of us going down the veg oil route now.
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w123 300d auto (sold, sadly)
w124 e300 td auto to replace the written off e300 d
w126 560sel (beast; now gone home to Germany to become part of someone's 190e)
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:53 PM
joe1972 joe1972 is offline
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Well, as an update. I've taken a second look around the fuel filter. I think I may have stumbled across an air leak where the fuel feed goes into the top part of the assembly (the part the filter screws into from underneath). There's three plastic push fit lines going into this part, and from what I have assumed is the one on the far left (offside), is the feed. The plastic was a very loose fit. I've scraped off the silicone sealant that I found all over it (not spotted before, as it's hidden well by that top plate!).....For now I've wrapped the end of the plastic in PTFE tape to make a tighter, hopefully airtight, seal.
The car now splutters as though it's going to start (which it didnt before).....I just left it for the battery recharge. With a bit of luck a fresh charge, then a good long crank will be enough to start?! (fingers crossed)

I stand corrected if I've got any of this wrong, and welcome further ideas and comment.

Thanks for the comments so far, and hats off to you guys for running vegi oil, but I'm going to stick to diesel for the time being.
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