Electric car

range rover

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Was talking to a friend the other day who has a new Nissan Leaf, I asked what he thought of it, absolutely first class, previously he had a Ford Focus. He was full of the benefits of this electric car, way over 100 miles and costs of about 2-3ppm

. I'm sure there are downsides, not having driven one I wouldn't know, didn't have much of a look at the car but it seemed to have attractive lines unlike some of the hybrids. Anybody else have any opinions? This was the top of the range option model 29k or thereabouts.
 

A.J.

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Re-charge infrastructure, range, depreciation, road noise, ugliness, only green at point of use, otherwise anything but green, to name but a few :(
 

A.J.

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you wait till he runs out of charge in the middle of a busy intersection . . . . . . . .

Usually when it's cold, dark and pouring with rain :D
 

Blobcat

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Just "No"
 

rf065

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One appeared on a neighbours driveway, along with a charging point fitted to the garage wall, Mitsubishi PHEV?
A year later and it's been replaced with a diesel BMW!
 

bembo449

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One appeared on a neighbours driveway, along with a charging point fitted to the garage wall, Mitsubishi PHEV?
A year later and it's been replaced with a diesel BMW!
it was reported that Mitsubishi sold alot of the outlander PHEV but over 80% of owners never used the electric side but bought it for tax reasons
 

Blobcat

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it was reported that Mitsubishi sold alot of the outlander PHEV but over 80% of owners never used the electric side but bought it for tax reasons
And there you have the whole electrickery car thing in one sentence ;)
 

DSK

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They are not my cup of tea in any way shape or form but, I can see how they may seem appealing to some (e.g no fuel costs, evironmental gibberish, less moving parts should equal great reliability etc).

My guess at the downside is the same as above around charging times and the range in the real world for anyone who covers some miles and can be caught up in mixed traffic conditions.

As an example, my commute takes about 1hr 15 mins but, if there are accidents and other issues, this can easily convert into 3 hours or more. On the M4 last summer, we barely moved a few yards in about the space of an hour or so and I remeber being some cars behind a BMW i3 in the next lane, just looking at it (sadly it was the most interesting thing around). Suddenly the driver appeared to be desperate to move over to the hard shoulder. A few drivers didn't let it move over (despite them only moving a few inches), but I left the driver a gap. Wound down my window as i was alongside and asked if he's OK. He said 'the f*cking things just run out of electric'.

Also I find, as a pedestrian, these things are a nuisance. Around S/W London, myself and many others walk some distance into Wimbledon, having to cross the roads at few usual points. Sometimes views can obscured due to large hedges, sharp turns etc and usually you can hear cars coming no problem etc but these electric things like the Prius Taxis and BMW I3's are silent and despite looking, sometimes they just seem to appear out of nowhere. Also I have seen some people just step out between parked cars, having had a quick glance, not seen or heard anything but, failed to see Pruis having pulled a U turn and now speeding towards them.
 

Blobcat

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They are not my cup of tea in any way shape or form but, I can see how they may seem appealing to some (e.g no fuel costs, evironmental gibberish, less moving parts should equal great reliability etc).

My guess at the downside is the same as above around charging times and the range in the real world for anyone who covers some miles and can be caught up in mixed traffic conditions.

As an example, my commute takes about 1hr 15 mins but, if there are accidents and other issues, this can easily convert into 3 hours or more. On the M4 last summer, we barely moved a few yards in about the space of an hour or so and I remeber being some cars behind a BMW i3 in the next lane, just looking at it (sadly it was the most interesting thing around). Suddenly the driver appeared to be desperate to move over to the hard shoulder. A few drivers didn't let it move over (despite them only moving a few inches), but I left the driver a gap. Wound down my window as i was alongside and asked if he's OK. He said 'the f*cking things just run out of electric'.

Also I find, as a pedestrian, these things are a nuisance. Around S/W London, myself and many others walk some distance into Wimbledon, having to cross the roads at few usual points. Sometimes views can obscured due to large hedges, sharp turns etc and usually you can hear cars coming no problem etc but these electric things like the Prius Taxis and BMW I3's are silent and despite looking, sometimes they just seem to appear out of nowhere. Also I have seen some people just step out between parked cars, having had a quick glance, not seen or heard anything but, failed to see Pruis having pulled a U turn and now speeding towards them.
I have the use of an i3 - range down to 55 miles (3 years old) I've not run out of electrickery with it but I know 2 people that have - both times had to be recovered to BMW to reset the battery... :(
Lack of range and not being able to refill it easily is always on your mind when driving it.
 
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peternutkins

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I think as a second car they are ideal, as if its only used for school runs, shopping etc it probably won't clock up more than 50 miles in a day, if you remember to charge it every night most of them will do well over that. Running and maintenance costs should be fairly low, especially if you charge it on off-peak electricity, not much to go wrong with them mechanically and the batteries, at least on the Tesla are reckoned to last the life of the car.

Not much use to me though, not that I am ever likely to be able to afford one, we go to the north of Scotland every year, then later to north Yorkshire. A Tesla will do about 300 miles on a charge but that's less than half way to Scotland.

Peter
 

00slk

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I have a friend who's Brother-in-Law has a top of the range Tesla, he's had it for over 2 years, really likes it, but it comes with quite a few issues and insurance is very high. Guess what, he said his next car will be.......Petrol!!! Very interesting, he is very conscientious about the environment.
 

malcolm E53 AMG

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At the current state of development EV cars are only useful as a very expensive shopping trolley I wouldn’t consider one for any other serious use. Hybrids are ok but again very expensive to buy and should the hybrid battery fail... manufacturers need to do more in the battery warranty dept before you can take any of them seriously
 

Tony Dyson

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This clip is from a Reuters clip released in Jan this Year;

"The auto industry currently has a range of different battery recipes competing for use in battery cathodes. One is NCA, or lithium nickel cobalt aluminium oxide, produced by Panasonic and used by Tesla.
Chinese manufacturers use a composition called LFP which has a lower energy density but does without cobalt, while Japanese carmakers use LMO, or lithium manganese oxide, which is used by Nissan and LG Chem."


The current Tesla battery is rated at 100kW and will struggle to get to Newcastle Airport from London on a good day in daylight, in summer, I would trust it as far as Leeds, Mercedes are launching their EQC later this Year I believe, with the base model starting at £65,000 fitted with an inferior 80kW battery made up of cells of presently an unknown provenance, I wonder will they opt for an inferior specification cells from China to match the inferior battery capacity? OK I suppose if you only want to get as far as say Birmingham?
 

Blobcat

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This clip is from a Reuters clip released in Jan this Year;

"The auto industry currently has a range of different battery recipes competing for use in battery cathodes. One is NCA, or lithium nickel cobalt aluminium oxide, produced by Panasonic and used by Tesla.
Chinese manufacturers use a composition called LFP which has a lower energy density but does without cobalt, while Japanese carmakers use LMO, or lithium manganese oxide, which is used by Nissan and LG Chem."


The current Tesla battery is rated at 100kW and will struggle to get to Newcastle Airport from London on a good day in daylight, in summer, I would trust it as far as Leeds, Mercedes are launching their EQC later this Year I believe, with the base model starting at £65,000 fitted with an inferior 80kW battery made up of cells of presently an unknown provenance, I wonder will they opt for an inferior specification cells from China to match the inferior battery capacity? OK I suppose if you only want to get as far as say Birmingham?
I think Mercedes are using known proven battery technology...:rolleyes::D:p

 

rorywquin

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I think that many people do not understand what they are buying when they get an electric/hybrid car .

Last week a friend was complaining that her new Toyota Hybrid only did about 40km on the battery. I've never looked at the technology but then did and her car has a 1500cc engine & electric motor (married though a gearbox) and a driving battery. Seems that electrics operate at low speeds etc and the engine kicks in when higher speeds and acceleration are needed and that there are also specific driving techniques.

Even worse was that she went to the dealer and complained about the gear change at a certain speed and was told by them that there is no gearbox, it is all electric.......:shock:
 

LostKiwi

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The only issue I have with electric is time to charge (on some models), range (on some models) and battery life.
I'd be ok with 300+ miles range and 20 minute recharge but sadly not enough manufacturers can offer that.
 

umblecumbuz

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When manufacturers reliably get 1000 miles plus of range, and charging times measured in minutes instead of hours, then might be a good time to have a closer look.

Buying into embryo technology that is developing in jerks (no puns please) rather than in a smooth progression seems daft.

Basically, the electric car will come of age when, under averse conditions, it will cover on one charge far more miles than a marathon driver could possibly do in one day.
 

rorywquin

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This clip is from a Reuters clip released in Jan this Year;

"The auto industry currently has a range of different battery recipes competing for use in battery cathodes. One is NCA, or lithium nickel cobalt aluminium oxide, produced by Panasonic and used by Tesla.
Chinese manufacturers use a composition called LFP which has a lower energy density but does without cobalt, while Japanese carmakers use LMO, or lithium manganese oxide, which is used by Nissan and LG Chem."


The current Tesla battery is rated at 100kW and will struggle to get to Newcastle Airport from London on a good day in daylight, in summer, I would trust it as far as Leeds, Mercedes are launching their EQC later this Year I believe, with the base model starting at £65,000 fitted with an inferior 80kW battery made up of cells of presently an unknown provenance, I wonder will they opt for an inferior specification cells from China to match the inferior battery capacity? OK I suppose if you only want to get as far as say Birmingham?

100 kWhour / 80kWh only describe the capacity of the battery not their quality. Range depends on how quickly you use the kWh. i.e. accelerating hard and driving hard will not get you far.

The car with the 80kWh battery might have much more efficient motors, be lighter, etc - and thus might be able to get a better mileage than the one with the 100kWh battery. Many variables involved.

For me the biggest issue with batteries is lack of charging points, range, price, charging time and the fact that if you frequently fast charge (a lot of power pushed in quickly) your battery, you shorten it's life (#charge / discharge cycles & power delivery) substantially (current technology). Constant hard acceleration (a lot of power sucked out quickly) will also shorten the battery life....

However I believe there are reports of batteries in Teslas lasting 100,000 miles - presumably treated very carefully for their lifetime.
 
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