Cyclist/Scooterists with no lights.....(rant)

EmilysDad

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Y ....

Obviously if you want a gentle pootle out to the pub with the kids then green ways/shared paths are ideal.

there are some shared cycle/pathways near us leading up to a pedestrian crossing. As a pedestrian you have almost no idea whether you're on the right bit or not as the painted cycles and stickmen are virtually worn away and the cycle bit was never green in the first place.
 

keefysher

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You are quite right, but are the "cycleways" really cycleways or shared paths?

Nearest cycleway to me is 20 miles away at an off road trail centre or 40 miles away at a velodrome. Much closer to me are greenways and shared paths that cyclists can use but are shared with a multitude of static and moving obstacles that pose quite a risk to cyclists. These arent cycleways of which I dare say that there are next to none in the whole country.

If you want reasonable commuting times or to take some of the reccomended excercise involving exersion, then shared paths rarely cut it and the road is the only alternative.

Obviously if you want a gentle pootle out to the pub with the kids then green ways/shared paths are ideal.

As my words read, cycleways.

I wonder how, if a cyclist is riding in accord with the highway code, common sense and awareness, how other static and moving 'obstacles' can pose a risk??? Bit like rules on the water, powered craft must give way to unpowered craft, sail to rowing boats etc. When skiing the skier up hill has to ski in control and give way to the skier below. Doubtless there are myriad other examples. Or are you saying cyclists are above others and don't have to abide by rules written or developed over time??

Fortunate to live in a town that the planners 40-50 years ago had foresight. 40 years ago when the bit I reside in was planned each property had provision for cycle storage and car parking in several ways. If a property with a single garage and driveway there is room for 3 cars and any modification to the building must retain the 3 car spaces, convert the garage you have to expand the driveway. Dwellings without garages have off road parking places that form part of the property. Cycle storage is based on 1 cycle per bedroom. At the same time the cycleways were planned and put in. Oddly enough on my way back home earlier, following reading this thread, I noted the cycleways that pass under roads and take a different route to the pathways in parts I'd not noticed before. Unfortunately it also made me think wtf cyclists don't use them and not the roads I was driving home on. I can only deduct its the ignorance and arrogance of cyclists. There are even signposts illustrating the two types.

Perhaps its modern society where everyone has rights, to whinge and whine and complain; without the responsibility of thinking things through and learning of the facilities and rules associated with what they are whining about. Bit like people who bought new houses without reading the local plan, attending public meetings, reading the local paper, not bothering to raise objections through due process and then complaining like fury there is a travellers site being built in the new development on the old golf course.Must have a look to see if the past planning regime has been applied to the current and future developments. Probably not as the new CEO of the council is a property developer from the smoke, just don't mention cladding to improve the vista :geek::rolleyes::D
 

Philedge

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As my words read, cycleways.

I wonder how, if a cyclist is riding in accord with the highway code, common sense and awareness, how other static and moving 'obstacles' can pose a risk???

A few examples for you- the wife and I riding towards a bloke with a German Shepherd off the lead. We slow down to the point where we can just balance but keep riding. Bloke does nothing. As we pass, the dog turns in front of my front wheel and I ride into it.
Local shared path has a line deviding bikes from pedestrians with sign posts right in the middle of the bike lane and I mean slap bang in the middle. No hi vis markings on the post in any form
Bloke walking same direction as me wearing headphones. I slow right down behind him as ask to pass. He ignores me so I ride slowly past him in the narrow space available and he wanders gently into the side of me.

Just a few examples of the hazards on shared paths even when following the rules. Hope these help in your understanding of why cyclists continue to use the roads.
 

EmilysDad

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A few examples for you- the wife and I riding towards a bloke with a German Shepherd off the lead. We slow down to the point where we can just balance but keep riding. Bloke does nothing. As we pass, the dog turns in front of my front wheel and I ride into it.
Local shared path has a line deviding bikes from pedestrians with sign posts right in the middle of the bike lane and I mean slap bang in the middle. No hi vis markings on the post in any form
Bloke walking same direction as me wearing headphones. I slow right down behind him as ask to pass. He ignores me so I ride slowly past him in the narrow space available and he wanders gently into the side of me.

Just a few examples of the hazards on shared paths even when following the rules. Hope these help in your understanding of why cyclists continue to use the roads.

another example though on a shared path way with NO dividing line near me, is the cyclists that travel far far to fast, weaving from side to side & the first you know of them is when they're right up behind you .... a quick ring of the bell that had to be fitted at point of sale would be a good idea or even 'get of the b**dy way' would be better than the near silent approach! ;)
 

keefysher

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A few examples for you- the wife and I riding towards a bloke with a German Shepherd off the lead. We slow down to the point where we can just balance but keep riding. Bloke does nothing. As we pass, the dog turns in front of my front wheel and I ride into it.
Local shared path has a line deviding bikes from pedestrians with sign posts right in the middle of the bike lane and I mean slap bang in the middle. No hi vis markings on the post in any form
Bloke walking same direction as me wearing headphones. I slow right down behind him as ask to pass. He ignores me so I ride slowly past him in the narrow space available and he wanders gently into the side of me.

Just a few examples of the hazards on shared paths even when following the rules. Hope these help in your understanding of why cyclists continue to use the roads.

In your first example why not just stop cycling and wait for the dog to brought under the control of the owner. You come across as a selfish person from riding into the dog to be honest. Also appears you expect to have priority instead of compromising and preventing a situation of running into the dog. Same as if a dog was off lead on a footpath, or on a field and I was walking, I'd stop and see how things turn out, not walk into the dog. If I were nervous of dogs I'd ask the owner to take control of the dog given my nervousness, although the dog probably would sense that.

In your second example, have you contacted the relevant authorities to get the posts moved? Our council are very good at sorting things out like overgrowth, vandalism on paths, cycleways, shared space etc. Or is it a case its easier to complain on the internet.

In the 3rd example did you use your bell, and upon his failure to respond choose to wait until a wider place was available, dismount and walk alongside him such that your bicycle was on the outside of you but in his path of vision so he was aware and could alter his trajectory without a collision.

You do come across as not willing nor able to compromise as a cyclist to be honest. You do say each example was in a shared space . How do you manage with sharing a road with cars, lorries, busses etc?? Your behaviours don't help my understanding, just reinforce that cyclists don't share but expect everything their way. Take a chill pill, relax and let the world go by, it's not life and death to wait or give way or compromise is it?
 

Philedge

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Lots of complaining about cyclists being on the road when theres track they can use, and all Im trying to do is enlighten you as to maybe why.

Feel free to keep your fingers in your ears if you want.
 

AnthonyUK

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Funny for a thread about no lights that the majority of posts are about too much light :D

Still looking for that ‘Goldilocks’ amount.
 

keefysher

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Lots of complaining about cyclists being on the road when theres track they can use, and all Im trying to do is enlighten you as to maybe why.

Feel free to keep your fingers in your ears if you want.

Talking of ears. Would you know that I couldn't hear you approaching me from the side or behind on your bicycle even if you bothered to ring your bell, which you don't mention if you have one fitted. This is something I have to deal with almost daily, where ignorant people don't understand that some people have disabilities that can't be seen easily. No point in shouting or ranting at me as I won't hear you or take any notice. Slowly approach to my side with your bicycle coming into my field of vision and there is a reasonable chance we won't collide and you won't get irate that your private space in which you wish to cycle has been invaded by a pedestrian. Suddenly appear at pace and I might turn or jump into your path from shock, and you may end up injured from falling over.

I don't need to put my fingers in my ears to know what is what :geek::rolleyes::D:cool:
 

A.J.

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Some very defensive cyclists...I wonder why:rolleyes:.

Maybe they should have a compulsory Cycling test before they hit the road, excuse the pun, other than the voluntary ROSPA one ? Lord knows how you would Police it :rolleyes::eek: Maybe be some form of hi-viz jacket or badge affixed to the bike perhaps ? :confused:
 
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Some very defensive cyclists...I wonder why:rolleyes:.

On a very busy central street in London recently.. I saw a woman fly through a red light (a bend too) and nearly take out a bunch of pedestrians.. as one of the pedestrians said something to her... she just shouted "f*** off" and kept going..

I mean come on..

The real problem seems to be the mixing of pedestrians/cyclists/motorists in close quarters. I fit into all three and I genuinely think it has given me an appreciation for everything which makes me extra careful.

Agreed on cycling tests... In Ireland, we have a think called "Safe Pass" that anybody on a construction site, must have. That model springs to mind for cyclists.

Will give police the ability to run checkpoints easily and also also issue fines.. the card could be valid for 5 years, requiring re-test. If you are caught doing something crazy/stupid/illegal. Same type of points system for cars, fines and mandatory re-training.

I guess it effectively becomes a licence... which isn't bad imho.

Regarding the policing of said test/certification. I don't think it needs be overt, but if caught without one you would be as screwed as you would if you were driving a car without a licence. The goose and gander should be treated equally.

Now.. how do we convince the mentalist green-heads that this isn't an attack on cyclists and anti environment.. but a real move towards safety on the roads.

I keep meaning to look up the figures.. if there were a crazy amount of serious accidents on the roads it would make the argument easier. Let me see..

EDIT: Here we go. Looks like pedestrians are more at risk.. These figures don't include unreported incidents. I would imagine the number of non-serious car/bicycle is a great deal higher.
 

AnthonyUK

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On a very busy central street in London recently.. I saw a woman fly through a red light (a bend too) and nearly take out a bunch of pedestrians.. as one of the pedestrians said something to her... she just shouted "f*** off" and kept going..

No matter who you are though, this is just plain wrong. The issue is not cyclists (generalisation like this are plain ignorant) but individuals.

Looks like pedestrians are more at risk.. These figures don't include unreported incidents. I would imagine the number of non-serious car/bicycle is a great deal higher.

Of topic i guess - This article which is also in the Freakonomics book is quite an interesting read regarding whether drink driving or drink walking is more dangerous.

http://freakonomics.com/2011/12/28/the-perils-of-drunk-walking/
 
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Hmm
No matter who you are though, this is just plain wrong. The issue is not cyclists (generalisation like this are plain ignorant) but individuals.

I'm not sure if you are referring to that quote being plain ignorant but I never refer to all cyclists in general, where a particular behaviour is concerned. What I do refer to is "cyclists, who do x, y or z" which is generalising a subset of cyclists and is not ignorant.
 

AnthonyUK

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Hmm


I'm not sure if you are referring to that quote being plain ignorant but I never refer to all cyclists in general, where a particular behaviour is concerned. What I do refer to is "cyclists, who do x, y or z" which is generalising a subset of cyclists and is not ignorant.

It wasn't related to your post ;)
Sorry, I should have made that clear.
 

Brizzle

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If he P's you off again then take a video of him riding on the pavement and send it via Twitter to the local police or BTP if on station property.

I'm ex-military and prefer the more direct approach :)

Your suggestions are well made and sound like a good idea :)
 

AnthonyUK

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I'm ex-military and prefer the more direct approach :)

Me too mate but watch out for cctv and witnesses ;)

People are not so concerned about the police but if anyone in their workplace or friends might see them.
 

ajlsl600

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I work with Eu legislation allbeit in a different area (taxes) in my job...all those directives state (and yes they do have full effect and are binding) is that new cars on sale have to meet certain pollution targets (Euro 5/6, etc) and how they are tested. At no point does it mention road tax nor what you can/can't do with your old car.

Road tax is not harmonised across Europe (Ireland it is 2-3k a year I think) and is based on engine size in some places, "tax bhp" in others and cylinders in others. Granted, many more countries are using the Euro 6 figures as it's easier than having your whole set of rules/loopholes/calculations.

The banning of older vehicles on the EU4/5/6 criteria is being introduced in many places (Barcelona, Madrid in Spain) for example and this is not dictated to by the EU. It is, in part, in response to the EU laws that state that NOX should not go above a certain level in any city. Hence in Madrid and Barcelona older vehicles are banned only on days of high pollution, no blanket ban (it's typically 2 weeks a year you can't go there).

Now of course, in the UK rather than make the rules as above to fit with the EU, they decided unilaterally to just make the bans complete and absolute all the time even on the days of no pollution. That's because, in general, the UK politicians want to and always have wanted to go a lot further than the EU in controlling it's population and ensure people buy as many new cars as they can. This is heped by the fact that the Uk population in general are much happier being controlled and grassing on petty law breaking and abiding by the rules than Europe, and of course also want to have an excuse to buy new shiny things on credit more than other Eu countries too. If you think any of this will improve after brexit I think you will actually find the opposite, the UK will make even more ridiculous rules now as it has to think up its own legislation; at current it has been limited in part by just lazily following the EU rules in many areas rather than create it's own even more invasive meddling.

In summary:

New cars being Eu6 = fault of EU
Cities banning older vehicles occasionally when polution is high = fault of EU
Road tax regime in UK = fault of Uk government
Blanket bans on Euro 3/4 and older cars in cities such as london = local government fault (with help from national UK government supporting/funding)


JUST DO AS FRENCH ,SIMPLY IGNORE any EU directive we dont like and carry on with our own plan. cant wait to see how french gov get on banning older diesels in rural areas. there must be millions and plenty around me, it will have to be done with stealth and sneaky methods or there will be riots
 

AnthonyUK

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JUST DO AS FRENCH ,SIMPLY IGNORE any EU directive we dont like and carry on with our own plan. cant wait to see how french gov get on banning older diesels in rural areas. there must be millions and plenty around me, it will have to be done with stealth and sneaky methods or there will be riots

I would guess that it would be ok to go above and beyond any EU regulation.
 

Philedge

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Talking of ears. Would you know that I couldn't hear you approaching me from the side or behind on your bicycle even if you bothered to ring your bell, which you don't mention if you have one fitted. This is something I have to deal with almost daily, where ignorant people don't understand that some people have disabilities that can't be seen easily. No point in shouting or ranting at me as I won't hear you or take any notice. Slowly approach to my side with your bicycle coming into my field of vision and there is a reasonable chance we won't collide and you won't get irate that your private space in which you wish to cycle has been invaded by a pedestrian. Suddenly appear at pace and I might turn or jump into your path from shock, and you may end up injured from falling over.
If the "you" above is referring to me, you should go back and read post #123.

I have a bell but feel its more polite to talk to people, as post #123.

Considering you know diddly squat about me you make alot of (incorrect) assumptions about my riding style and attitude based on a handful of forum posts.
 
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Conor

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.... Sorry to revive this thread - but!

I spoke with police officers yesterday and they said that it's not a legal requirement to have lights on your bike, but light reflectors are.

... So what about the guy that shouted "no lights" at me one evening (forgot to turn them on) as he walked out in front of me cycling my very quiet road bike. What good are reflectors then?!

I am so disillusioned with government now (for a variety of reasons) that I have no idea what to do. I feel like the next time I see one I am going to just unload on them.
 
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