ECO on or off

[ajlsl600]

Is there a higher % of delivery vans breaking down (starter motors???) because of all the start stop they do?

The average commuter car with ECO, almost certainly does a fraction of starts/stops that a delivery vehicle does.

3 things there. you can be damn sure they are changing them much more often than prior to stop start.2 you can be fairly sure that this is not often in 1st owner situations and not that often during warranty. 3 i bet wherever possible/practical the owner operated delivery vehicles have stop start disabled and maybe a good number of others as well. i think the majority on here have it turned off as well.. my daughters man is a rep with a vw diesel previously hyundai stop start off on both he found it too irritating. again if yr ok with it, happy days .at the moment? it is still, in most cases a personal choice. if i ever get a car that has it it will be my second priority to get it dissabled

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

One other thing I would mention is that I noticed the AGM battery wasn’t up to operating the Stop/Start on my car between battery age years 5 to 7. I’ve just replaced the battery and the Stop/Start is available after the half mile mark every journey. This potentially means replacing the car battery more frequently to maintain the availability of Stop/Start, I suspect once the battery charge drops below approx 12.3V availability would be sporadic assuming a fully charged battery is rated at 12.6V

 

[EmilysDad]

So no one uses a box of electrickery then ....

 

[Crispian]

I see it as a lazy way of manufactures to reduce their official mpg figures,no more no less.

 

[rorywquin]

3 things there. you can be damn sure they are changing them much more often than prior to stop start.2 you can be fairly sure that this is not often in 1st owner situations and not that often during warranty. 3 i bet wherever possible/practical the owner operated delivery vehicles have stop start disabled and maybe a good number of others as well. i think the majority on here have it turned off as well.. my daughters man is a rep with a vw diesel previously hyundai stop start off on both he found it too irritating. again if yr ok with it, happy days .at the moment? it is still, in most cases a personal choice. if i ever get a car that has it it will be my second priority to get it dissabled

Choice to use ECO is free for all of us - I am not a big fan but it really is not as bad as everybody makes out (IMO) and if it helps the environment and the health our future generation then perhaps it is worth using.

On your other statements, unless, you have factual information, you are speculating ('fairly sure', 'I bet', 'I think') & how do you know that they "are changing them more often" - I know I'm being argumentative but it seems to me that there is a lot of speculation and no hard facts about increased wear and tear.

 

[rorywquin]

I see it as a lazy way of manufactures to reduce their official mpg figures,no more no less.

Better mpg, is that a bad thing?

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Regarding wear and tear engineers at design stage work to parameters and test components by how many cycles required to fail. As owners we all like to think that MBs components last longer than most other brands but that may not be as true as it used to be now they are mass producers of cars with price points to match. The point I am trying to make is that all mechanical components have a life expectancy and the more use they get the more likely they are to fail generally

 

[Crispian]

Better mpg, is that a bad thing?

Sorry,I meant emissions figures.

 

[LostKiwi]

Simple logic dictates that the more you use a component the faster it will wear out. If manufacturers design for the increased usage this must consume more resources (stronger gears, heavier duty starter motors, bigger brushes, heftier alternators and secondary batteries, let alone other engine components).
I'm a firm believer that start stop is a fudge to get around emissions testing and that it is of minimal benefit to the environment.

 

[flowrider]

I think the use of the stop/start system in cars is insignificant when looking at the numbers of Van's, buses and lorries that leave there engines running when they are delivery goods and or having breaks. I live close to a bus stop which is used as a resting point for the drivers, virtually all of them leave the engine running. I have complained numerous times to delivery drivers that leave their van's running when delivering goods and I have complained to the council about their contractors leaving van's running, on one occasion loading a flatbed truck with tree cuttings for 20 minutes and the engine running throughout.

 

[ajlsl600]

Better mpg, is that a bad thing?

if you leave the car in the garage the fuel economy and carbon footprint is really good... i think that the relationship between more frequent use of mechanical, electrical components and earlier failure of "starter" for example, is already well understood. armature turns ,brushes rub on armature, ,bushes wear, brushes worn out ,incorrect contact between brush and armature ,segments burnt on armature,starter scrap.
my point yes a few mpg, but savings spent on repairs at some point in vehicle life. and carbon issue questionable,in my view, would say more achieved if one walked the kids to school instead of driving 1,2 km 4 times a day and if we thought to plan our trips to get 2,3 things done on same trip.

 

[ajlsl600]

Simple logic dictates that the more you use a component the faster it will wear out. If manufacturers design for the increased usage this must consume more resources (stronger gears, heavier duty starter motors, bigger brushes, heftier alternators and secondary batteries, let alone other engine components).
I'm a firm believer that start stop is a fudge to get around emissions testing and that it is of minimal benefit to the environment.

xactly ! tho i have no issues with the use of by those who like it. not for me...

 

[Capra]

I did use mine when I was stuck on the M5 due to an accident, and we would occasionally crawl for a bit, that was quiet useful then. But that's it!

 

[A.J.]

Same here, I turn it off right after I start the car.

Me too, I do it automatically now

 

[rorywquin]

if you leave the car in the garage the fuel economy and carbon footprint is really good... i think that the relationship between more frequent use of mechanical, electrical components and earlier failure of "starter" for example, is already well understood. armature turns ,brushes rub on armature, ,bushes wear, brushes worn out ,incorrect contact between brush and armature ,segments burnt on armature,starter scrap.
my point yes a few mpg, but savings spent on repairs at some point in vehicle life. and carbon issue questionable,in my view, would say more achieved if one walked the kids to school instead of driving 1,2 km 4 times a day and if we thought to plan our trips to get 2,3 things done on same trip.

ECO & increased wear and tear = 'Mountain out of a molehill' and 'storm in a tea cup'.

The last time I had to change brushes and bushes was back in the 70s on my 1966 Mini's generator - are brushes not replaceable on modern alternators and starters? Maybe I'm living in a bubble but, on all the forums I read - I've never seen worn starter motors being an issue. I did 600km (in low range mainly 1st and 2nd gear through thick desert sand & mud - so high RPM ) with the brushes in my alternator (Landcruiser - which was also my daily driver) clogged with mud (not charging) .....had the mud cleaned out with a pressure washer and 40,000km later sold the car still going strong on the same alternator & brushes. They are reasonably robust.

AFAIK, start/stop & hybrid cars have special (electric) oil circulation pumps so that components are not dry when the engine restarts. Besides maybe "worn brushes" and 'maybe' replacing a battery more often what other wear and tear is there (flywheel starter gear ring)?

I hear what you and others are saying and agree that things (starter motor) will wear quicker - but how much quicker (will it really be enough to actually worry about) - with better materials, tolerances and manufacturing, is this really the big issue people are trying to make it out to be?

HOWEVER, I do agree with less unneeded trips (IMO every little bit helps when you add up the millions of vehicles on the road) - we have a mum in the village that drives her kids about a km to school......ban school runs and lay on busses as they do in the USA.

 

[ajlsl600]

apart from yr last para ,i think we have to agree to differ, and i have also done a fair bit of bush/desert driving.. and in many cases i dont see better materials,tolerances,materials . i see cheaper materials, slacker stds on tolerances and manufacturing as said i dont see this as a thing for the first owners inside warranties to worry much about but on balance i think the so called savings fuel,environment will be negated over the vehicle life by increased wear and replacement of the components involved in " STOP.START.

 

[LostKiwi]

The figures I've seen for starter motor operation cycles suggest they are designed historically to deal with 50,000 in the life of the car. Stop start are 500,000 (which suggests 10 times per journey - a figure I suspect is too low for city usage).
That's 10 times the stress on all associated mechanical and electrical systems.
Similarly I saw a report that suggested the break even point for NOx, CO2 and HC was thirty seconds. Less than thirty seconds it was better to keep the engine idling. More than 30 seconds it was better to shut it down.
In my typical driving profile I'm rarely stopped 30 seconds or longer.

 

[400ixl]

Lots of assumptions with little facts here.

There was a check done of 3rd party warranty companies and starter motor failures have fallen year on year consistently for over 20 years and did not increase with the introduction of stop start across all the brands.

Next time you are in a taxi with galactic mileage and stop / start active (and most will be) as them if the starter has failed. Yet to find one who says it has.

Can't find the link now, but there was a poll done on a BMW forum a couple of years ago where over 2,000 people responded as to whether they have manually switched it off (and its a one time thing for them). The result was less than 20% did. Falling into your category of making assumptions, but if only 20% do when you cam do it once, I doubt 50% do when you have to do it every journey.

It is quite easy to inch forward and even be sat at a junction stationary without stop start kicking in, its just brake pedal control. I tend to let it kick in when at a red light when I also want to use the hold function. At a junction or slow moving traffic I just control the break pedal, or if bad traffic switch it off for that period. Otherwise it really doesn't bother me as natural habit just makes it work for me.

Completely agree its something people either like, don't care or hate and people should do what they like. But too many people on here make up information about how its going to destroy the engine, or be so hesitant its going to kill you (that's just the Darwin effect for people who can't drive). If you want to rush out into traffic, then press the throttle 1/10th second earlier, if you don't have time for that then you shouldn't be pulling out into the gap as it is not safe to do so.

 

[RhodieBill]

 

[400ixl]

Why do people still post this crap video? Its like taking factual news from the daily mail.

The whole thing is years old, states that its a personal hate, probably doesn't do much for the environment, but is no evidence of additional failures either.

Just trash journalism, offering nothing insightful or factual either.