Electric car

[LostKiwi]

When manufacturers reliably get 1000 miles plus of range, and charging times measured in minutes instead of hours, then might be a good time to have a closer look.

Buying into embryo technology that is developing in jerks (no puns please) rather than in a smooth progression seems daft.

Basically, the electric car will come of age when, under averse conditions, it will cover on one charge far more miles than a marathon driver could possibly do in one day.

ICE engines don't do that. Why would you expect electric to?

 

[Blobcat]

When manufacturers reliably get 1000 miles plus of range, and charging times measured in minutes instead of hours, then might be a good time to have a closer look.

Buying into embryo technology that is developing in jerks (no puns please) rather than in a smooth progression seems daft.

Agreed, I easily managed 925 miles on one 65 ltr tank in my W213 220d - I wanted to get to 1,000 but didn't have it long enough

 

[LostKiwi]

Agreed, I easily managed 925 miles on one 65 ltr tank in my W213 220d - I wanted to get to 1,000 but didn't have it long enough

No petrol car will get near 1000 miles on a tank. Why expect electric to?
How often do you do 1000 miles in one hit? I rarely do more than 500 and am quite happy to include a 25 minute break half way for coffee/toilet/food/leg stretch so adding a recharge would be no hardship.

 

[umblecumbuz]

ICE engines don't do that. Why would you expect electric to?

Firstly, we are talking about progress, so I would expect any new technology to have increased range along with its other benefits. I would want range anxiety completely banished from my mind before I bought into the electech movement.

Secondly, I can stop and fill up my current diesel car in minutes - anywhere.
All this hype about just getting a coffee and ice cream when your electric car is charging is propaganda. First, you queue for a charging slot, then you connect and wait a moment to assure yourself the thing is really charging, then you wander across to the cafe, queue for coffee etc, find a table, get settled, drink the coffee, go back to your vehicle, etc. etc. It's an unwanted performance, which in no way equates with a quick stop, fill and away.

 

[LostKiwi]

Firstly, we are talking about progress, so I would expect any new technology to have increased range along with its other benefits. I would want range anxiety completely banished from my mind before I bought into the electech movement.

Secondly, I can stop and fill up my current diesel car in minutes - anywhere.
All this hype about just getting a coffee and ice cream when your electric car is charging is propaganda. First, you queue for a charging slot, then you connect and wait a moment to assure yourself the thing is really charging, then you wander across to the cafe, queue for coffee etc, find a table, get settled, drink the coffee, go back to your vehicle, etc. etc. It's an unwanted performance, which in no way equates with a quick stop, fill and away.

It just requires a different mindset.
With electric you can charge your car at home prior to any journey (I can't do that with an ICE car). So given you start with a full 'tank' how often would you drive more than (for arguments sake) 500 miles in a day?
I've looked at the practicalities of using a Tesla to drive to our house in France - 500 miles each way.
The additional time required would be less than 15 minutes using the current infrastructure in place.
If superchargers were available at more locations on the motorways that difference would become less for the simple reason we tend to stop every two hours for 10 minutes (and we need at least 1 fuel stop anyway).
The biggest challenge at present is infrastructure. There are not enough high speed charging points available.

The statement made earlier that emissions are only zero at point of use is also flawed. If the energy source supplying the charging infrastructure is wind/solar then it's zero emissions all the way (excluding manufacture but then all cars have that regardless of motive power).You can have a totally zero emissions electric car (excluding manufacture) but you can never have an emissions free petrol/diesel car.

 

[umblecumbuz]

Agreed that the issue at present is partly mindset.
But ... range anxiety is very real and will not go away until motorists are convinced that their electric vehicle will get them where they want to go with plenty to spare.

Anyone who's driven deep into the countryside late at night - petrol or diesel - on a low tank of fuel, watching the little red light first flashing then staying on constantly, feathering the throttle, coasting down every hill, ears attuned to the slightest missed beat from the engine, will know what I mean. It takes years off your life!

Nobody wants to eke out the last few electric miles watching the 'clock' and hoping - only to find on making it home with a sigh of relief (that's when you really need the coffee!) that another family member, or a family emergency, requires the immediate use of the car by a different driver.

Range for the maximum use under the most adverse conditions, plus a margin for emergencies, will eventually sell the electric vehicle. I wouldn't consider one until.

 

[Tony Dyson]

In ball park figures, Williams doubled the capacity of a 28kWH Renault battery to a 56kW battery for the first Formula E 2014/15 season, at the end of the 2018/19 season that battery had grown into a 150kW unit which extrapolates to an annual capacity development of around a 28% increase Year on Year.
For this Year's 2019/2020 season McLaren have developed a 250kW battery with a braking regeneration module which can add a further 50kW to the overall capacity during the race and just the base 250kW indicates an increase of 60% on last Year alone!
Technology is moving fast on battery development and it's only a matter of time before car batteries will be produced that will have an acceptable capacity with appropriate lifetime and performance capabilities. I reckon that's 5 Years away and by then the infrastructure would possibly have had time to catch up as well.

 

[d215yq]

Why does it have to have a really good range? I actually need a car that does 500 miles and then would recharge in a few hours as that's sometimes drives I have to do. But that doesn't mean they should design an electric car for me, they should design it for the 25-30% of drivers who just commute locally 10-30 miles a day. They should make the cars cheaper and even lower range as (unlike with ICE) the range is very costly to increase in terms of money and weight (and environmental damage) -so accept that and take advantage of the other things (like 4WD and 0-60 in 6 secs at practically no extra cost). Then sell it to the 25-30% "low hanging fruit" and develop it from there for the next segment as the technology evolves.

Why they're starting at the "it has to have the same range as ICE" and then compromise it with heavy/expensive batteries that makes it unsuitable for the very market it is the perfect solution to I have no idea...

 

[oigle]

As a 2nd car, I see no issues. As a prime and only car, the problems of range and recharge time rear their heads. As a 2nd car, it can be used as the "go to" car for all short distance usage eg. up to 100km a day, which is the main usage for many of us. Longer trips are often a rarity for people who don't do a daily commute. I could easily use one as a second car and may do so in a few years time when due for a car replacement.

 

[DSK]

............

Anyone who's driven deep into the countryside late at night - petrol or diesel - on a low tank of fuel, watching the little red light first flashing then staying on constantly, feathering the throttle, coasting down every hill, ears attuned to the slightest missed beat from the engine, will know what I mean. It takes years off your life!

Nobody wants to eke out the last few electric miles watching the 'clock' and hoping - only to find on making it home with a sigh of relief (that's when you really need the coffee!) that another family member, or a family emergency, requires the immediate use of the car by a different driver.
...........

Agreed.

Just to add a little real world here, yes not everyone does 1,000 miles a week or 500+ miles in one hit but, the above is very true.

I usually travel back to the Midlands late at night and, anyone else whose knows what its like to be stranded on the M1 at midnight, only for them to have closed junctions, diversions that add some serious extra miles and satnav that want you to drive through a famers field as you see the M1 is just at the back of it, only have to have to figure your own way home as the SatNav have proved to be cack, are no conditions for electric cars.

When my commute home from Berkshire to Nottingham takes approx 2hrs 30 mins and the above has bitten me more times than I can can to remeber over recent years, there have been occasions I have set off from Berkshire at 10pm, expecting to be in Nottingham at approximately 12:30Am and actually got to Nottingham between 2AM - 4AM! Despite never running my cars low on fuel, even this happens and I have 1/2 tank in the Supra/Volvo's I have a bad enough time worrying where I'm going to get some Shell Vpower from incase I need it.

Electric cars work for small distances but, why anyone would pay thousands for an electric to just nip about locally is beyond me, (walk, cycle, run, get a cheap small car for £1k-£5K).

Anyone who actually covers respectable distances, should just stick to petrol/diesel.

I'd be damned if I ever have to wait 30mins+ to charge an electric vehicle at a motorway service - fuel, full tank and in/out in 5 mins.

 

[rf065]

I'd be damned if I ever have to wait 30mins+ to charge an electric vehicle at a motorway service - fuel, full tank and in/out in 5 mins.

Wait till the service station operators get into gear, far from losing profit on fuel sales, they will be turned into large shopping malls now that they have a captive audience with nowhere to go for a few hours.

 

[Frontstep]

Well talking to the MB geeks they told me recharging will be around 8 mins to 80% within a year, hmm we shall see.

Perhaps Dianne Abbott is holding the stopwatch.

 

[umblecumbuz]

Wait till the service station operators get into gear, far from losing profit on fuel sales, they will be turned into large shopping malls now that they have a captive audience with nowhere to go for a few hours.

And if that happens, how many charging points will be clogged because shoppers wander around the Mall for longer than the charge actually takes?

It's bad enough now, where garages have small supermarkets and fuel customers leave their cars at the pumps while they do a quick shop.

Personally, I just want to fill up and go as quickly as possible. On very long trips I take my own coffee and snacks, and find an attractive place to stop rather than a cattle market attached to a fuel station!

 

[DSK]

Wait till the service station operators get into gear, far from losing profit on fuel sales, they will be turned into large shopping malls now that they have a captive audience with nowhere to go for a few hours.

I'm the sort of person who carries a beverage in the car, no way am I spend £5 on a cup of coffee or accepting to eat McDonalds.

However, service stations will need to adapt as ****ed off adults are bad enough but, having to keep the kids entertained for 30+ mins at a service station, I do not look forward to that!

 

[Frontstep]

On another point why are these washing machine cars so expensive ?

It is probably why so many new manufacturers are queuing up to get into the market.

Mr Dyson and numerous Chinese manufacturers will force prices down,

although suggesting Dyson forcing down the price of anything perhaps doesn't help my argument.

 

[Blobcat]

"Stopping" during a trip no, can't fathom that bit

I have water and travel sweets in the car, I fill up (if required) at the end of a trip so it's ready to go for the next one. I regularly do >4 hour jaunts but never stop on route. I want to either enjoy the drive or get to where I'm going not sit around

 

[Blobcat]

On another point why are these washing machine cars so expensive ?

It is probably why so many new manufacturers are queuing up to get into the market.

Mr Dyson and numerous Chinese manufacturers will force prices down,

although suggesting Dyson forcing down the price of anything perhaps doesn't help my argument.

A dyson car would be the biggest pile of grey plastic rubbish imaginable - I'm sure their marketing peeps would push the V10 digital motor... they could put one on each wheel and say how much better V10 digital is compare to V8 ICE

 

[rf065]

A dyson car would be the biggest pile of grey plastic rubbish imaginable - I'm sure their marketing peeps would push the V10 digital motor... they could put one on each wheel and say how much better V10 digital is compare to V8 ICE

His marketing dept will be working on it now. If he can invent the term "digital motor" for something this isn't, I'm sure they'll invent some other term for their cars that will say the're better than anyone else's.

 

[DSK]

On another point why are these washing machine cars so expensive ?

As we all know, you can sell anything to idiots.

 

[Blobcat]

As we all know, you can sell anything to idiots.

Polish it and sell it