Eco Mode - (Stop-Start) Jerking/Jolting/Jumping C250 CDi 2012

400ixl

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That's not what my mechanic mare says....

Based on what?

I have asked 4 indies if they have seen any issues or have concerns, none have said they do. There is nothing in the 3rd party Warranty reports for these models that allude to any issues.

If your mechanic has evidence there is an issue then love to hear it. I have the capability to disable it permanently in my car if there is such evidence, so if there is evidence.
 

LostKiwi

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Based on what?

I have asked 4 indies if they have seen any issues or have concerns, none have said they do. There is nothing in the 3rd party Warranty reports for these models that allude to any issues.

If your mechanic has evidence there is an issue then love to hear it. I have the capability to disable it permanently in my car if there is such evidence, so if there is evidence.
Based on what he sees daily in his workshop.
 

davidsl500

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R172 250CDI Gone..!, R129 SL500 Gone...
The reason why I mentioned the OM651 start/stop potential issue is because I am looking to buy a car with that engine - a C250 Coupe or more likely the SLK250CDI.

I did a bit of Googling and came across timing chain issues since it is now a single rather than duplex and one independent specialist had remarked that he had only seen the problem with start/stop variants. Apparently timing chain rattle is the first warning and is particularly noticeable after an oil change on initial start up. I'll be turning start/stop off if I get a car with this engine just in case. Not being paranoid but I will also be listening for the slightest of rattles now I have read things here and there whether they have any foundation or not!
 

400ixl

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All of the specialist indies I spoke to have said there is no change in the chances of it happening in those engines with stop start to than those without it. There is also no evidence to the contrary in the public domain at all that I have been able to find. Don't get paranoid in trying to listen for something the likelyhood of happening is remote, enjoy the car.

No issue to people not liking it an making a choice they want to switch it off. Pain that for most they have to go through manually doing it every time though. I'd look at one of the methods of doing it permanently if that is your choice.
 

finlay

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I have a ‘63 plate C250 Saloon, and with regards the auto transmission, sometimes when I’m approaching a junction and braking gently there is a judder as if it’s not been 100% sure what gear to go into.
Does anyone else get this?
I asked in the local MB dealer about any software updates, when I was in about the recall, and the lady had no idea what I was talking about.
I do the servicing myself due to being confident and being too tight to pay for something I can do on my own drive.
 

John Laidlaw

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I have a ‘63 plate C250 Saloon, and with regards the auto transmission, sometimes when I’m approaching a junction and braking gently there is a judder as if it’s not been 100% sure what gear to go into.
Does anyone else get this?
I asked in the local MB dealer about any software updates, when I was in about the recall, and the lady had no idea what I was talking about.
I do the servicing myself due to being confident and being too tight to pay for something I can do on my own drive.
When’s it last had an ATF and filter change?
I’ve had this on a 63 plate W212 with the 7g box, a ‘judder’ 3-2 , it was like that from new
 

CowleyStJames

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At my last but one service, the dealer did an atf filter and oil change, also applied a software update to help with the lumpy change between first and second.
This was on my 2011 E250 with 7g+ gearbox.
Also, like you, it cured a bit of a harsh down shift too.
So yes, there is a software update to help with this.
My gearchange since is almost imperceptible
 

Exp21

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s204 C200 CDI Blue Efficiency MY2012, w245 B200 CDI Facelift
I have a ‘63 plate C250 Saloon, and with regards the auto transmission, sometimes when I’m approaching a junction and braking gently there is a judder as if it’s not been 100% sure what gear to go into.
Does anyone else get this?
I asked in the local MB dealer about any software updates, when I was in about the recall, and the lady had no idea what I was talking about.
I do the servicing myself due to being confident and being too tight to pay for something I can do on my own drive.

Hi, I searched a lot through the web about 7g+ issues. I have friends with the same 7g+ and I can tell you that what you describe is "normal". In the Italian forum there are many complaints about this, little jerks and hard shifting (specially between lower gears). Mine, in fact, is not perfect: I have a jerk (it's like a little braking) shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear (very annoying in city driving but I found this defect even on a GLK with 7g+), some little "jumps" when releasing the brake pedal starting from a stop and when I come to a stop and I want to shift from D to N, the car does a jump/jerk and the back of the car lowers (you feel the traction on rear wheels goes away) and I really don't like this shock you feel, I think it's symptom of something incoming. My dealer did gear re-adaptations and an engine software update: it improved a little bit but I think they didn't tell me the truth about my 7g's symptoms. So I have to keep the car like this until someone will tell me the truth about it. Notice that my 7g+ had the torque converter replaced+ATF oil change at 90000 km in a MB dealer (precedent owner) due to an oil leakage.
 

finlay

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It’s never had the ATF changed, probably worth a shout then. I thought this would be a “sealed” unit “lifetime” oil.
 

Blobcat

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It’s never had the ATF changed, probably worth a shout then. I thought this would be a “sealed” unit “lifetime” oil.
It was only “sealed for life” if the life ran out outside of warranty... as a few failed within warranty Mercedes then changed their mind and recommended ATF changes which differ depending upon gearbox and age although changing every ~40k miles is a good start.
 

finlay

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Thanks for the advice, as I do all the maintenance/ servicing myself ,so I now know I’ll need this doing.
Think it’s do-able by myself or is it a garage job?
 

LostKiwi

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Thanks for the advice, as I do all the maintenance/ servicing myself ,so I now know I’ll need this doing.
Think it’s do-able by myself or is it a garage job?
It's an easy DIY job. Drop the transmission sump after draining the oil to get to the filter.
 

finlay

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Perfect, wee task for tendrils week possibly.
Thanks guys.
 

gr8pics

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Mercedes Eco Mode "Sart-Stop" function problem.

I have recently purchased a 2012 C250 Cdi Blue Efficiency with Eco Start-Stop function with the 7-g auto box. While I accept this feature is a bit like "Marmite" and you either like it or not, so its either permanently switched off if you don't like it, or, like me, it's left on when driving in cities/towns. (Personally for me I find when driving in towns or cities where inherently you get a lot of start-stop traffic I think it's a useful feature to have so have it switched on for this type of driving).

My question is, when the system works and all the system parameters have been met and the car comes to a standstill and switches the engine off, when its time to move off again and I release the brake pedal the car "jerks/jolts/jumps" as it re-engages the forward gear, (similar to putting a manual car in gear with the revs at about 800rpm and the clutch half out). It does this whether I use the "Hold" function and gently press the accelerator or, simply hold the car using the brake, when I release the pressure off the brake pedal. I'm getting no fault codes or warnings on the dash when it does this so as far as I'm aware no fault codes are being recorded in the system computer. It's annoying as I thought it should be smoother when releasing the brake pedal. Has anyone else experienced this and, is this common on Mercedes or do I need to get something reset/fixed? For some reason it doesn't do this if I come to a halt, the engine switches off and I select reverse, it then engages reverse gear and starts with no jolting, jumping or jerkiness.

I bought the car from a MB Specialist reseller. The car has a full MB service history and the seller had the ATF changed the week before I picked the car up at a MB main dealership as it was at 70k and needed doing in accordance with MB service schedule. Following the ATF change MB reset the gearbox using their Star machine.

I've not had the car more than a couple of weeks so couldn't say if it has always done this, but since owning it these last two weeks every time it goes into Eco Stop-Start mode it does this. The car is under warranty so if I need to have something changed, repaired etc I'd like to get it done under the sellers warranty.

Has anyone experienced anything similar and has any idea as to what may be the issue. I've been told it could be the Torque Converter, the auxiliary oil pump that keeps the oil circulating in the gearbox when the start-stop function is active and switches the engine off, and it could even be the batteries, both the main and the smaller battery that manages the Start-Stop and Hold functions.

Hi,

Did you ever solve this problem?

I have the same problem, but suddenly.
When ECO feature is on, and the engine stops, and then restarts, it kicks really hard in the transmission.
Everyone tells me its the auxillary pump like this one
https://www.benzshop.de/en/mercedes...liary-oil-pump-gear-2212700197-start-stop-eco

But no one knows what the actual problem is, is an electrical problem with the pump not working to maintain the oil pressure, or are there a mechanical problem inside the pump?
Nothing is possible to find trough diagnose.
Do i need to replace to pump, or is the problem somewhere else?

Everything else works as normal when driving, except from when the start/stop engage and enginge restarts.
 

steveq

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Hi (and welcome)

What mileage has your car done?

Do you know the service history of the gearbox?
Has the ATF & filter ever been changed -- if so, when?
Was the correct fluid used?

That pump (AFAIK) maintains the fluid pressure during stop/start so it may be the cause.
I would be surprised if it had developed a fault and there wasn't an error code.

Have you looked for faults using an OBD2 reader?

You might need a STAR session to do a proper diagnosis.
 

gr8pics

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Hi (and welcome)

What mileage has your car done?

Do you know the service history of the gearbox?
Has the ATF & filter ever been changed -- if so, when?
Was the correct fluid used?

That pump (AFAIK) maintains the fluid pressure during stop/start so it may be the cause.
I would be surprised if it had developed a fault and there wasn't an error code.

Have you looked for faults using an OBD2 reader?

You might need a STAR session to do a proper diagnosis.

Hi,

Thanks.
It has done 170k km, ATF and filter was changed at 120k, and was done at Mercedes dealer.
Havent plugged in Star yet, cause the dealers want 100$ for that job alone, but its been on a workshop with an advanced diagnose (suppose to be next best to Star) and only message he could get was something like "oil pressure sensor wet clutch, not taught" but he couldnt figure out what it meant.

Its correct, that the aux pump maintains the pressure during halt, to avoid the jerking during restart, and its almost certain the problem lays there, but question is, what with it is wrong, could it be just a bad connector, or some parts inside the pump that is jammed.
The only other thing i can think of, is that the car have been parked for a longer period, and the start battery was empty, and possibly also the backup battery, as i got a backup battery fault message in the dash.
Could it simply also be some missing calibration for the pump that needs new programming, or is that not likely?
 

steveq

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It is definitely worth checking the voltage of both the main battery under the bonnet and the smaller auxiliary battery in the boot.
Both should be at 12.6 volts or higher with the engine off.

It might be worth putting both on charge using a good charger with an AGM option (e.g. CTEK).
 

Gazwould

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Auxiliary is also AGM ?
 

mioba

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It’s never had the ATF changed, probably worth a shout then. I thought this would be a “sealed” unit “lifetime” oil.
No such a thing, its only sealed from the service book perspective. my w220 has a sealed for life box, yet i have changed the oil and filter every 35k after the dealer said it doesnt need changing on that series, codswallop
 
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