Blue smoke and smoking turbo (non mb)

[j4gg4]

Not a merc, I hope its Ok, Im posting here as I received good advice in the past.

So its a 1.7 diesel (astra) and im getting smoke from the exhaust which is blueish. It only occurs under acceleration. Theres no coolant leak, or loss of oil. The turbo was replaced last year.

Also, after a 10 minute drive, or shall I say when the engine gets to temp, im getting a slight steam/smoke from the turbo itself which is located on the back of the engine, well, its coming from that area, whether its the turbo or not im not sure. So its difficult to locate exactly where this smoke is coming from.

No fault codes, no errors on dash. Drives OK. Only really smokes more the faster you go or the more you accelerate. On idle theres zero smoke.


LITTLE INFO...
The last owner said it wasn't smoking before he took it to a garage, he took it to this garage for a oil leak and for the engine cutting out. The garage fixed the oil leak, changed loads of parts to fix the cutting out issue, bill came to £800 and they said they couldn't fix it. So the last owner moaned as the garage had it 3 months and didn't fix it properly, they eventually agreed to let it go for half price. Last owner said it started smoking when he drove it away (unsure if he's telling the truth or not mind). I bought the car as spares or repairs in hope to have it as a little run around. I fixed the cutting out issue which cost me £20, unbelievable a mechanic couldn't do that yet a numpty like me can. He last mechanic replaced the rocker cover to fix a oil leak. They also replaced (apparently) high pressure fuel pump, fuel filter, rail pressure sensor, crankshaft sensor to try fix the cutting out issue. When I look at the engine after a drive around, it develops some droplets of fuel on top of the engine and a slight bit of fuel around the injectors. Im thinking to replace the O rings on the bottom of the injectors, and possibly change the injectors, since that could be the reason for the smoking? Another issue, Im sure the oil is rising in the engine, I don't mean after a drive, I mean after it sitting. I replaced the oil and filter as it looked old and was showing as overfilled. It also smelt odd (not like oil). Im worried theres fuel leaking into the engine, a leaky injector would cause this and a smoking blue exhaust wouldn't it?

Thoughts?

 

[oigle]

If you are getting serious fuel dilution of the engine oil, this would certainly cause the thinner/diluted oil to bypass rings and smoke quite a bit. Lubrication would also become marginal. Need to identify where fuel is entering sump and soon.

 

[j4gg4]

If you are getting serious fuel dilution of the engine oil, this would certainly cause the thinner/diluted oil to bypass rings and smoke quite a bit. Lubrication would also become marginal. Need to identify where fuel is entering sump and soon.

As I say, im not sure if thats happening, Its just a guess. Its not been tested correctly.

However, I changed the engine oil and filter, and it still smoked exactly the same way as it did before.

And it still doesn't explain smoke coming from the turbo area...

 

[LostKiwi]

Smoke from turbo area could be incorrectly fitted turbo oil return allowing oil to drip onto exhaust.
Check if the engine oil smells of diesel. If it does diesel is getting in engine oil either from leaking pump or injectors.
Remove inlet pipe to turbo and try to move the shaft up and down and in and out. If it moves more than 1.5mm up and down the bearings are shot. If it moves more than 1mm in and out the thrusts are shot.

 

[oigle]

Smoke around the turbo - any residual oil on the turbo itself? Any obvious oil leaks around turbo on to hot surfaces? Is PCV hose properly attached and sealed off? If motor smoking, any exhaust leak will smoke. Any exhaust leaks around turbo to exhaust flange? Leaking around injectors needs fixing before it turns into "black death". A blue smoking engine is usually a sign of motor ring failure - maybe it has seen an overheat sometime - or it is the fuel dilution you think you have.

 

[j4gg4]

Thanks for the comments, with regards to some questions, I will answer some later i hope. I can't be bothered to get under the car right now, but a mechanic is coming out to check the turbo today (i hope). Will report back on what he thinks and go from there. If it needs a new turbo I will probably do it myself.

Is there any way to tell if you have a bad injector without any special tools?

And is there any definitive way to tell if you have diesel in the oil without special testing tools?

 

[LostKiwi]

And is there any definitive way to tell if you have diesel in the oil without special testing tools?

Mk 1 nostril. You'll smell it.

 

[j4gg4]

First of all guys, my bad. Turbo is in fact on the front of the engine! and it is not smoking at all.

Mechanic came out, he had a good look around for a while at the engine with it running. Theres notable diesel sitting on top of the inlet. And around the top of the injectors. It wasn't there before, he reckons it can only come from the pipes connected to the top of the injectors, but they are bone dry. Its notably damp around the top of the injectors though.

Anyway, thats a separate issue.

With the main issue with it smoking...

He removed the oil cap and said he don't think the pistons or valves are gone. He then removed the turbo pipe and checked the turbo shaft for play, no play at all, neither in and out or up and down. There was a drop of oil right near this shaft though.

He then removed the breather pipe and with the engine running, it was smoking from it. He then said it must be pistons. He said it smells of oil when I drove off. He said to leave the breather off, strap a bottle to it and drive it around, if oil gathers into the bottle then the engine is knackered.

Annoyingly no smoke appeared at the back of the engine when the mechanic came. The only thing at the back of the engine is the inlet, I don't see what else. The engine is a A17DTJ if anyone wants to view pics of it on google, also the same as A17DTR (i think).

Also on startup, it did produce a puff of smoke. But when it idles it doesn't smoke at all (most of the time) It then only smokes when accelerating heavy.

Also, the DPF light was on due to a interrupted DPF regen. I ran the regen via the diagnostics and the light went out. But, oddly, the coolant leaked during this process. It was almost at the min mark before the DPF regen stopped. Why would it lose coolant during a DPF regen? and only during a regen.

One other thing thats bugging me is the loss of diesel, the needle on the clocks goes down quite quickly. So its definitely losing diesel, possibly into the engine. When I picked the car off the seller, he gave me 2 small boxes with screws and bits in that the mechanic didn't put back! Mostly are for the engine undertray and the cambelt cover. But 1 injector washer was in the box. I am now worried that this washer wasn't replaced, and in fact its not got a washer on the injector at all! theres obviously only one way to check this, Next week i'll whip off the cam cover and see if I can remove the injectors. I don't have any special tool for this, so im hoping its simply bolted on and then slides out. I bet its never that easy though is it.

Whats your thoughts on the above?

 

[j4gg4]

Ignore the above, heres an update....

I accidentally erased the injector programming and as soon as i've done this.. it virtually stopped smoking. Now on startup theres a little puff of black smoke(instead of blue), on idle no smoke. On hard revving and accelerating its very minuscule blue maybe grey smoke but its so small its almost unnoticeable and not dense like before. Why on earth has this happened from simply erasing the injector programming?

Anyway, I've replaced injectors just in case there was a problem (I don't have a leak off tester to rule them out). Easy enough job. Programmed them in, but....... I cannot get rid of this error:
P062B FUEL INJECTION SMALL QUANTITY NOT LEARNED

I have attempted to learn it but it isn't having any of it. I guess because theres still a issue with the fueling system. On a google search, one official article suggests to change the engine control unit.. really? even though this error didn't exist before I erased the injector programming.

I've then checked the injector balancing rate and im getting:
1) +12
2) -1
3) -1
4) -12

Assume #1 and #4 are way off and causing under-fueling/over fueling? what could cause this on 2 injectors.. the injectors themselves?

 

[bembo449]

If this were me id have done a spill test before anything else pal

 

[j4gg4]

If this were me id have done a spill test before anything else pal

Well, I've now got rid of the small quantity code by learning it with a delphi tool.

So im pretty much done with this now.

I do get a bit of smoke on startup when its been sitting overnight, but after a few revs it goes away.

 

[bembo449]

Nothing unusual about that pal

 

[j4gg4]

Nothing unusual about that pal

I'd say its too much smoke and its still blueish and smells of burning oil. On a cold start it will also be a bit rough, when revving it, it doesn't rev smoothly for about 3 to 5 minutes. But as the car warms up, its all a lot better and hardly any smoke.

I checked the glowplugs with a multimeter and they seem to be in range. Although that doesn't necessarily rule them out does it? Could I possibly remove the glow plugs but keep the wiring connected and then turn the key to #2 to activate the glowplugs to see if they heat up properly and on time? or would I need to connect ground to the shaft before doing this?

Also I noticed that the car hisses a bit too much when driving it. So it potentially has a split intercooler pipe, I need to physically check that out. Could that cause blueish smoke on a cold start ?

 

[bembo449]

I think you should still look at the injectors pal , spil test them , it will tell you heaps about whats going on and yes , a split boost hose will cause smoke , usually black but never say always

 

[j4gg4]

I think you should still look at the injectors pal , spil test them , it will tell you heaps about whats going on and yes , a split boost hose will cause smoke , usually black but never say always

Cheers, I guess i'll purchase a injector leak tester kit then. They don't seem to be too expensive either. What is the best method to do this test on denso injectors? Just run the car for a couple minutes and then check if any are leaking more than the others?

I also want to test the glowplug harness but unsure how.

 

[bembo449]

Test is the same on all injectors, carefully remove leak off pipes and put test pipes in there place , crank it over and see what spills off pal , ive used just small bore clear pipe before now , aslong as its 3ft in length for each pipe you will see results