Ethanol Content in UK

[Prof.C.Benz]

Yesterday, I got a bee in my bonnet about the Ethanol content of fuel in the UK, so I called BP, SHELL, Total & ESSO.

I just got off the phone from a lovely man, Simon who is a technician @ ESSO/Exxon He has let me know that ESSO Premium Fuels in the south of England (draw a line from the East coast to Norwich, Birmingham, Bristol then down to the south coast) contain 0% Ethanol. With no plans to add Ethanol to these fuels.

The only reason I will now be using Esso Premium is to avoid longterm damadge to seals and tank linning.

Also, the move to E10 fuel is not happening yet, but he has assured me that if they ever add ethanol to their premium fuels, it can only go up to E5 due to some kind of chemical limitations.

Total, now have Ethanol (E5) in all their fuels as of mid last year.

Still waiting to hear back from BP, SHELL.

 

[Prof.C.Benz]

From a very helpful lady. their official quote on the Ethanol matter... will also post in non-mb related forum.


"Dear Mr *****,

Thank you for contacting Esso Customer Care.

The majority of unleaded 95 Octane petrol sold in the UK contains 5%
ethanol as required under the Government’s Renewable Transport Fuels
Obligation (RTFO).

There is currently no requirement for renewable fuel (such as ethanol) to
be present in super unleaded (97 grade petrol). Esso super unleaded petrol
(Esso Energy Supreme) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the
Teesside area and Scotland) and we have no current intention to add ethanol
to Esso Energy Supreme in other areas of the UK.

We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of
ethanol in petrol to use Esso Energy Supreme – providing they don’t fill up
in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland.

The proportion of ethanol in 95 grade unleaded in the UK is expected to
increase to 10% in the next few years to meet increasing legislated
renewables content, bringing us into line with both France and Germany.

When this happens, the Government has legislated that super unleaded petrol
must be available at least until 1st January 2014 with no more than 5%
ethanol content. It remains to be seen whether the Government will decide
to extend that deadline, because the introduction of 10% ethanol in
unleaded in the UK has taken longer than originally envisaged.

Finally, you may be interested in the regulations relating to ethanol in
petrol. The RTFO was amended in 2009 and is listed under The Renewable
Transport Fuel Obligations (Amendment) Order 2009 Order 843 (
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...roduction/made). This
fulfils the requirements of the EU’s *Biofuels Directive of 8 May 2003 (
http://ec.europa.eu/energy/res/legis...s/en_final.pdf), *and
Directive 2009/28/EC of 23rd April 2009 (
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...16:0062:EN:PDF
), which promoted the use of energy from renewable sources.

Yours sincerely,

Anett Furedi

Customer Care Assistant UK&Ireland
Customer Service, Fuels & Lubricants, EAME
+ UK Customer Care, ExxonMobil House, MP 300, Ermyn Way, Leatherhead,
Surrey, KT22 8UX ( 020 7136 1798 7 020 7026 4728 :"

Hope this is useful to some of you... anyone driving any MB over 10 years should avoid Ethanol!

The Professor.

 

[Prof.C.Benz]

Incase there are those that don't understand the damage caused by Ethanol to older vehicles, please read the following:

http://www.groups.tr-register.co.uk/wessex/ethanol-update.html

Ignore the bit at the bottom about individual Fuel companies and their Ethanol content, as this article is from 2011.

As soon as I hear from Shell & BP, I will update

 

[Some guy on the internet]

Esso makes my cars pink.

 

[television]

Esso makes my cars pink.

You should avoid getting it on the paintwork

 

[Prof.C.Benz]

Esso makes my cars pink.

Which Esso fuel do you use, and where are you based in the UK?

 

[Some guy on the internet]

Regular unleaded.

In the middle of your Southern territory.

Do you work for Esso?

 

[tode]

Incase there are those that don't understand the damage caused by Ethanol to older vehicles, please read the following:

http://www.groups.tr-register.co.uk/wessex/ethanol-update.html

Ignore the bit at the bottom about individual Fuel companies and their Ethanol content, as this article is from 2011.

As soon as I hear from Shell & BP, I will update

The article you quote contains some very dubious chemistry - in particular, the points about oxygen attacking metals and rubber, therefore ethanaol is BAD. Also the point about ethanol being acidic - in fact ethanol has a pH of 7, which is neutral.

It seems very strange that so many older cars have no problems over here on the Continent, where all petrol has contained ethanol for a good number of years.

 

[Prof.C.Benz]

Regular unleaded.

In the middle of your Southern territory.

Do you work for Esso?

Hahaha... No, I'm just trying to find out which fuel is gonna be better for my girl (1991 300CE, called Jasmin) to keep her healthy over the next few years.

As I said, as soon as I hear from BP and Shell, I will update, so there is absolutely no bias here... I haven't even used ESSO for years as I had a big problem with their company ethics for a long time.

Also, the fuel you are using DOES contain Ethanol (ESSO Regular Unleaded = E5). Maybe try the Premium stuff and let us know what you find...

 

[Prof.C.Benz]

The article you quote contains some very dubious chemistry - in particular, the points about oxygen attacking metals and rubber, therefore ethanaol is BAD. Also the point about ethanol being acidic - in fact ethanol has a pH of 7, which is neutral.

It seems very strange that so many older cars have no problems over here on the Continent, where all petrol has contained ethanol for a good number of years.

It is early days to be saying that older cars haven't had any problems... Also, The real problem is gonna come when we move to E10. The government and fuel companies have both aknowledged that over 3.5 million cars in the UK alone will not be able to run on it!!

I'm not a chemist, but that report is one of many!

 

[Chrishazle]

On the Porsche forums I frequent there have been quite a few threads and posts about E10 and its (non) suitability for pre 1996 cars - the threads are mainly on 968, 944, 928 and 924 forums. Basic advice, including from Porsche themselves, is do not use E10 in any of these cars as it will mess up fuel lines etc. Important for me - I'm taking my 968 to France and Belgium in a week or so, and will thus be using their 97 or 99 RON fuel only.

 

[Prof.C.Benz]

The article you quote contains some very dubious chemistry - in particular, the points about oxygen attacking metals and rubber, therefore ethanaol is BAD. Also the point about ethanol being acidic - in fact ethanol has a pH of 7, which is neutral.

It seems very strange that so many older cars have no problems over here on the Continent, where all petrol has contained ethanol for a good number of years.

From Wikipedia, sighting many independant sources:

Modifications to engines

The use of ethanol blends in conventional gasoline vehicles is restricted to low mixtures, as ethanol is corrosive and can degrade some of the materials in the engine and fuel system. Also, the engine has to be adjusted for a higher compression ratio as compared to a pure gasoline engine to take advantage of ethanol's higher oxygen content, thus allowing an improvement in fuel efficiency and a reduction of tailpipe emissions. [91] The following table shows the required modifications to gasoline engines to run smoothly and without degrading any materials. This information is based on the modifications made by the Brazilian automotive industry at the beginning of the ethanol program in that country in the late 1970s, and reflects the experience of Volkswagen do Brasil. [140]

Required adjustments to gasoline engines to cope wi Ethanol blend Carburetor Fuel Injection Fuel pump Fuel pressure device

Fuel filter Ignition system Evaporative system F t

≤ 5% Modifications not necessar E5 to E10 Modifications not necessary fo

E10 to E25 Specially designed vehicles

E25 to E85 Specially designed veh

E85 to E100 Specially designed

Modifications not necessary Source: Josehp (2007) in The Royal Society (2008), "Sustainable biofuels: prospects and challenges, pp. 35-36". [91]

Other disadvantages

Disadvantages to ethanol fuel blends when used in engines designed exclusively for gasoline include lowered fuel mileage, metal corrosion, deterioration of plastic and rubber fuel system components, clogged fuel systems, fuel injectors, and carburetors, delamination of composite fuel tanks, varnish buildup on engine parts, damaged or destroyed internal engine components, water absorption, fuel phase separation, and shortened fuel storage life. [141][141][142][143] Many major auto, marine, motorcycle, lawn equipment, generator, and other internal combustion engine manufacturers have issued warnings and precautions about the use of ethanol-blended gasolines of any type in their engines, [144] and the Federal Aviation Administration and major aviation engine manufacturers have prohibited the use of automotive gasolines blended with ethanol in light aircraft due to safety issues from fuel system and engine damage. [141][142][143][145] Ethanol has a significantly lower heat content than gasoline (23.4 MJ/L vs 35MJ/L). Studies have concluded that the net fossil fuel energy savings when using ethanol is zero. Along with criticisms of raising food prices by taking significant crop production out of the world's food supply and massive government subsidies required to create a cost neutral experience for consumers make some observers are wary of increasing dependence on food derived ethanol as a fuel viable energy alternative. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/article/Contemporary-Economic-Policy/211959185.html

 

[properwounded]

Having just read that some parts of the country do and don't use ethanol why is this ok for some and not for others?!

 

[Prof.C.Benz]

Having just read that some parts of the country do and don't use ethanol why is this ok for some and not for others?!

Wish I knew mate!...

 

[Prof.C.Benz]

Reply from BP today... getting there...

Dear Mr *****,
*
Thank you for your email concerning the fuel sold by BP.
*
In most regions of the UK our Ultimate Unleaded dos not contain any Ethanol at present (South West UK excluded). This may of course change in the future as the specification allows up to 5%.
*
Our Regular grade gasoline does contain up to 5% bio ethanol in compliance with EN228 gasoline specification allowance in most regions of the UK.
All BP fuels, regular and BP Ultimate, contain additives which have cleaning and protection properties for the engine.* BP Ultimate has been rigorously tested on a wide range of vehicles, covering thousands of miles, in various conditions.* Its advanced formula offers a wide range of benefits including better fuel efficiency, more power, better responsiveness, and lower exhaust emissions, all of which gives long term benefit and value to the consumer and their vehicle.

BP does not supply Bio Ethanol as a fuel.
*
Thank you for taking the time to bring the matter to our attention and for allowing us the opportunity to respond to your concerns at this time.


*
Kind regards,
*
Agnes
*
Retail Customer Care Team
Email: careline@bp.com
Telephone: 0800 402402
Fax: 0845 082 1706
Internet:*www.bp.com*

 

[Prof.C.Benz]

Another one from Esso...

Dear Mr. *****,

Thank you for contacting Esso Customer Care. May I assure you that any
enquiry received by Esso is taken extremely seriously and followed up as
appropriate.

Please read our statement about the content of ethanol in our fuels as
follows.

All premium unleaded petrol marketed in the UK by Esso contains an ethanol
content of up to 5% by volume. Our energy Supreme Unleaded is largely
ethanol free with the exception of Scotland, the North eastern corner of
England and the far South West. Most vintage cars are compatible with
ethanol up to 5%, although we are aware of concerns by the vintage car
community. Where ethanol free energy Supreme Unleaded is available,
customers may wish to choose that grade – at least 80% of Esso retailed
energy Supreme Unleaded is ethanol free and will remain so into the
forseeable future.

There is no ethanol in our diesel.

I hope this information helps.

Yours sincerely / Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Üdvözlettel

Katalin Haller
Customer Care Assistant
Customer Service, Fuels & Lubricants, EAME
Telephone: +36 1 298 5752; +44 207 136 1798; +353 165 69 039
Fax: +36 1 298 7180; +44 207 026 4267; +353 165 69 180

 

[properwounded]

premium petrol is dear enough already, but at what cost will it have over replacing an engine.... roll the dice

 

[Image2000uk]

Prof

Pop into any esso and ask to see the msds sheets for the fuel they should have them it will show the chemical breakdown and the ethanol content for the fuel. if you acnt drop me a pm and ill see if i can get hold of a copy

 

[jeremy156]

I found this old (but increasingly relevant) thread while looking into whether E10 would be OK for my car and thought it worth sharing a Service Information document for anyone else concerned.

It's in German, but the table shows the engines that are *not* suitable for E10. I was curious about my W124 and it seems the M104 is OK while the M103 isn't.

 

[LostKiwi]

M119 is fine but none of the V12s are apparently.