Urgent Advice Needed - Rounded wheel bolts by garage

d215yq

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Hi all, well after the Saga of getting my rear tyres changed and asking them to loosen the front wheels overtightened by them previously, I decided to change the front brakes. Then I noticed the new cross climate tyres were on the front not back as I asked for. No problem, I thought as I was going to change the brakes anyway I thought I'd just do it myself. Well got 8 of the 10 front bolts off with a 60cm breaker bar I found in the boot the Previous owner had put there and a quality socket 17mm, and the socket snapped on the 9th and it really was hard gettign those 8 off

So I went back to the garage and asked them to do it. They were wondering why I wanted to take them off etc but I said it was my right to change brakes etc and swap tyres. The guy laughs and explains how iun this shop it's all manually tightened, maybe I don't have the tools etc but just banter so I say show me how and I'll give you a fiver a wheel half jokingly. So he comes back with his own breaker bar on the two nuts I couldn't undo on the front to snap his tool immediately. Not lauighing any more he gets the gun and can't remove the two on the front nor any of the 10 on the rear. Says the wheel bolts on the front are all rounded and therefore it can't be taken off and so it's not possible to change them.... whereas the ten on the back are so tight that it's impossible to get them off even with the gun as it is not powerful enough but may well round off when he finds a powerful enough gun!

I explained calmly that they must be rounded off because of the excessive force used and therefore it's up to him to remove all the wheels and return it to me loose (as this is the second time I said I want to pick it up loose and tighten myself at my own risk). He said OK but he might need to buy wheel bolts or it could even be a write off with new hubs etc. So I stated that OK, things happen, but we've both agreed the route cause is they are over-torqued and I don't want it back until it's fixed and don't expect to pay anything for this. He then said they sub to a garage the tyre work (which is probably true as they don't have tyres in the workshop and maybe why their gun can't get them off) but I said that's fine but still his problem. He said he coudl only try with their more powerful gun on the back and hope they don't round but the two on the front are rounded and the gun spins so they can't be got off and it might need a new hub.

Has anyone had this problem before and am I within my rights to ask for it fixed FOC inlcuding new bolts and hubs if necsessary? Assuming it is freed off I expect I'll need new wheel bolts to stop this happening in the future and would that be something they should pay for as it's their fualt for rounding them or is it actually not tehir fault because the 33yr old bolts could be claimed to be "faulty" as they should never round no matter what torque is applied?? Also could this sort of thing damage other components (I assume the bit they screw into is the hub?)

Anyway I'm a little stressed. I need the car to go to the UK in 2 weeks and don't want any problems. Out of interest what do wheel bolts cost and are they expensive?
 
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d215yq

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If they're using 12 point sockets that will damage bolts. You should only ever use 6 point impact sockets with a rattle gun.

They (and myself) were using 6 point sockets. Does anyone know what torques we're talking about when a professional mechanic uses his airline and it won't remove any of the 10 rear bolts - not because these are rounded (only teh front two are rounded) but because the gun doesn t have enough power!...and so he has to take it back to the tyre place he subbed the work to for the more powerful gun hoping that can get them off.

I understand these things are overtightened all the time but I can't see overtightening it so much that a professinal mechanic's airgun can't get it off as normal? And as such whether he is using 6 point or 12 point sockets I expect him to buy new bolts/sort out any damage caused...I assume going outside the power of a mechainc's airgun is not close to Mercedes torque specifications and is a magnitude above?
 

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I would have thought easily 250nm + , as opposed to your wheel nuts at 100-130nm
 

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They should be able to undo them no matter how tight , i have managed to break one before but it was on a car that had been stood for years, garages really too much on compressed air and battery guns and dont have the nouse to sort some problems
 

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Mechanic at my local indie has a cordless impact wrench with 4 torque settings, apparently on setting 4 it's something stupid like 900 or 1900Nm for crankshaft bolts etc, but on setting 1 it's only 100Nm - I watched him using it on my rear NS wheel Monday and then tightening the bolts with a torque wrench set to 120Nm (or maybe 130Nm) and each bolt turned a little before the torque wrench clicked, which was pleasing!
 
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d215yq

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I would have thought easily 250nm + , as opposed to your wheel nuts at 100-130nm

Thanks, good to know that.

Maybe I've been doing it wrong but I've always just used the wheel brace and stood on the end to tighten it. Then when it comes to untightening the same wheel brace needs a small kick. Whenever mechanics have changed the tyres it's sometimes needed a few more kicks but until using these guys I have never not managed to get a wheel off on any car in 17 years with the standard factory wheel brace. And never had a wheel fall off either...
 

LostKiwi

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It depends on the gun. Most decent battery guns run to 400Nm or more. I'd expect double that from an air gun.
 

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Three are impact guns and there are impact guns, some are lots more powerful than others, plus it’s also depends on what airline pressure is used.
 

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My snap on is 460nm but cant undo alot of stuff , my mates runs at nearly 700nm and aint much better alf the time , he has a mains gun that goes to 1200nm but we darent use it on small stuff , i dont know anyone here in my town that uses air anymore
 
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d215yq

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They should be able to undo them no matter how tight , i have managed to break one before but it was on a car that had been stood for years, garages really too much on compressed air and battery guns and dont have the nouse to sort some problems

Thanks, hopefully they will be able to - it was him who started saying other stuff could be damaged and it might be complicated if the bolts round - and does any of this destroy hubs/dics, etc?

Assuming that this won't cause damage and they are loose tomorrow then if there are any obviously rounded bolts I will offer to buy new ones from Mercedes myself and send him the bill. Does that sound fair or is a bolt a "wear item"? My guess is wheel bolts would last 200 years if they were never overtightened so would not be happy having to buy new ones myself as it can't be acoincidence they are overtightened and now rounded..

Next time I need 2x tyres I think I'll just park nearby and remove the wheels and take them in! Then I can torque them myself and also manage to put them on the correct axle myself, two things it seems the professionals atleast here can't manage!
 

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My snap on is 460nm but cant undo alot of stuff , my mates runs at nearly 700nm and aint much better alf the time , he has a mains gun that goes to 1200nm but we darent use it on small stuff , i dont know anyone here in my town that uses air anymore
That sounds like if you put 1200nm on a wheel nut , it would spin the car around :shock:
 

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That was my first thought when my indie's mechanic told me what his cordless one can put out!:eek::eek:
 

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.... and each bolt turned a little before the torque wrench clicked, ....

This is the bit that seems to go over the head of many a tyre fitter. They use a rattle gun & then announce the fact they're using a torque wrench ..... but when the gun has tightened to way way more than the torque wrench is set too doesn't sink in.
 

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This is the bit that seems to go over the head of many a tyre fitter. They use a rattle gun & then announce the fact they're using a torque wrench ..... but when the gun has tightened to way way more than the torque wrench is set too doesn't sink in.
That probably requires a basic understanding of Maths which may not be a qualification for a tyre fitter.
 

Chrishazle

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For years now I've made a point of witnessing wheels being refitted after a tyre change, and have on quite a few occasions caused annoyance by stopping them using an air/cordless gun for initial refit of the wheel bolts. It's not rocket science - I have an air operated spinner that will only put out 40FtLbs for putting wheel bolts on, but you see so many idiots that would happily use the impact wrench they used to remove the bolts when they come to refit them, too ignorant or lazy to use the correct tool! I even carry a set of sleeved wheel bolt sockets in the car so they don't damage my alloys - how many supposed pros have you seen using those? In my case 1, but he's no longer in business!
 

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For years now I've made a point of witnessing wheels being refitted after a tyre change, .....

i'm going to be keeping a closer eye on tyre fitters now that I have the stainless capped flower headed bolts on my car. After I'd bought my car I noticed a few of the caps were missing and some were loose. I now have a complete set of capped bolts using the bolts from the locking bolt case & glueing the loose caps on with Loctite.
 

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A1AD53F5-5DB2-4256-9FEC-97CE76244121.jpeg Some of the mb bolts require a special star socket, not just six sided.
 


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