Urgent Advice Needed - Rounded wheel bolts by garage

[Jim2]

I've dealt with the same tyre company for the last 30 odd year's, and I've never had him tighten a wheel that I was unable to loosen with the MB standard kit. He uses the gun to spin them in, but once they pinch, he uses the wheel brace to finish them off. I've seen him one day giving one of his staff a right bollocking over fully tightening a bolt fully with the gun.....I'd say it was the last time the fitter did it !!! ( or the rest of the staff within earshot !!! ) But on the son in laws Peugeot 508, it is always a different matter, ( he uses a different tyre shop ),,18" breaker bar, extended with a 4' steel tube, and while I put pressure on the nut, the son in law "Tap's" the socket with a 4 pound club hammer,and that generally work's. But the bottom line is what some tyre shop's do when tightening wheel nut's, is nothing short of criminal

 

[W245207]

Thanks, good to know that.

Maybe I've been doing it wrong but I've always just used the wheel brace and stood on the end to tighten it. Then when it comes to untightening the same wheel brace needs a small kick. Whenever mechanics have changed the tyres it's sometimes needed a few more kicks but until using these guys I have never not managed to get a wheel off on any car in 17 years with the standard factory wheel brace. And never had a wheel fall off either...

You're not suppose to 'stand' or use any additional force on the wheel brace. The length of the bar is designed for the required torque, 120Nm-130Nm isn't much and the wheels won't come off! If you over torque bolts, they will 'stretch' and give inaccurate torque reading.

 

[Chrishazle]

Looking at that star socket that Star showed, it's a sleeved socket so it will not damage the alloys - I keep a set in my car but have only ever seen 1 tyre fitter that had them. However, I'm on my 3rd MB and none have star type wheel bolts, just normal 6 sided, so my sockets work fine! About £20 for a set of 3 that covers all normal bolt sizes, worth buying!

 

[d215yq]

You're not suppose to 'stand' or use any additional force on the wheel brace. The length of the bar is designed for the required torque, 120Nm-130Nm isn't much and the wheels won't come off! If you over torque bolts, they will 'stretch' and give inaccurate torque reading.

Thanks, so if i use a standard wheel brace and am average strength then full force should be about 130nm?

It seems ive been over torquing them for years but in 17 years of motoring the ones i tighten by standing are always easier to remove than any garage has done in uk/spain. So there must be pretty systematic over torquing going on.

Nothing as ridiculous as this though. I suppose theyre designed to be over torqued a bit but im wondering if theres a limit? Ie if these guys cant get it off with an air gun does that mean new bolts are needed as they are stretched beyond their design parameters.

 

[Blobcat]

 

[vtaylor78]

View attachment 54330

That lot would fill the boot of the 171 BC

 

[Blobcat]

That lot would fill the boot of the 171 BC

It would, I've just the original wheel brace, a long 17mm socket, extension, T-Bar and torque wrench...

 

[d215yq]

Well that was fun...hmm they've managed to get them all loose so they say and gave the car back with them definitely definitely tightened by hand, I'll see over the weekend when I swap the tyres round.... I hope it's very light because now I only have the normal breaker as my 17mm sockets are ruined for the bigger one.

By way of an apology I was told that actually only 2 of the 20 were actually "properly properly very difficult to remove" (that's Ok then as you only need to take out 3 to change a wheel?!) and although these bolts are rounded they are still OK "as long as noone over tightens them" - don't know how he said that with a straight face. So I said I'll see when I remove the tyres and do the brakes and then the ones I deem to be rounded I'll be asking to be replaced on Monday (tomorrow is a bank holiday here). To be honest I've still got no confidence they won't be overtightened still but it's dark and rainy here and I really need a break from it so will see tomorrow/saturday!

Would anyone be going easier on them (i.e. buy my own bolts and be grateful) or harder on them (i.e. ask them to replace the front brakes i bought for free to make up for the inconvenience and loss of my sockets - the thought did cross my mind but then i dread to think what torque those bolts would be done up to and assume with stuff like that they'd generally not take any care whatsoever as it's not paying them!!)?

 

[Chrishazle]

Might be a good time to swop the lot for corrosion resistant bolts so they stay silver instead of quickly going MB rust brown! Over here alloywheelsdirect.net do suitable ones I've seen decent reports on.

 

[Rappey69]

There are a few cordless impact drivers that can go over 1000nm of torque, but I read they cant do a bolt up using that power, only for undoing.
Im very surprised an air impact driver could not undo a nut.. The constant hammering usually gets most things off.
Socket branding has a lot to do with care of the bolt head.
I had a bolt head that had rounded off using a decent brand of socket. Went out and bought a geodore socket (rather pricey) but it didn't slip in the slightest on the rounded bolt!

 

[Chrishazle]

I have a cheap 12V Parkside 1/2" cordless impact wrench (Lidl I think rather than Aldi, but 1 of the 2!) in the boot of the C220, breakout torque max 400Nm but makeup torque max 100Nm - OK the first one I had was faulty, but it was replaced FOC.

 

[EmilysDad]

I just have something like this in my boot ..... extended for undoing, short for doing up

 

[LostKiwi]

I just have something like this in my boot ..... extended for undoing, short for doing up

I have something similar:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/282185079479

 

[Jim2]

I just have something like this in my boot ..... extended for undoing, short for doing up

I have one like that too, Emily'sDad, but I never liked the angle on it....in my opinion, it tend's to encourage "sliding " off the bolt, so I took the welding torch to it, and now it sit's at a sharp right angle to the wheel and of course the bolt too. No more slipping or loss of torque. I use a hardened hexagonal impact socket with it, and so far it's never failed me. But on the rare occasion (generally on some one else's car) when I need extra torque, I slide a 4 ft hollow steel bar on over it, and that generally does the trick.

 

[Jim2]

View attachment 54330

That about's cover's all eventualities ..... ( only thing missing is the 4 lb ( or heavier ) lump hammer

 

[d215yq]

I just have something like this in my boot ..... extended for undoing, short for doing up

Thats exactly the same as what i used. Am i calculating correctly but i had it horizontal and stood on the edge and i weigh 70kg at 50cm away so i was applying 350nm? That was enough for 8 bolts so then i started bouncing up and down which is when the sockets broke and nuts rounded. So wheels were at least 3x recommended torque?

 

[400ixl]

Just buy a torque wrench for doing them up correctly first time. Doesn't cost a lot and can be used for other things as well.

 

[LostKiwi]

Thats exactly the same as what i used. Am i calculating correctly but i had it horizontal and stood on the edge and i weigh 70kg at 50cm away so i was applying 350nm? That was enough for 8 bolts so then i started bouncing up and down which is when the sockets broke and nuts rounded. So wheels were at least 3x recommended torque?

No necessarily.
The torque to undo a bolt that's been place for some time in all weathers can often be much higher than the torque to do it up originally.

 

[DREAMER NO2]

I know this will be hard to do for some of you .But i like to take my wheels to the tyre shop one at a time . .Replace the one removed after tyre replacment or after a balance . I will do it this way for each wheel .And i inspect them before i leave the tyre shop . That way i can see the job done,, and also if they are damaged .

 

[daibevan]

I always re-torque my wheels after fitting & before I go on a long trip if they haven't been done in a while. I also keep a breaker bar with a 17mm socket in the boot for removing wheel in an emergency. I would refit using the bar and re-torque at home.