Deadly SBC failure - warranty extension in USA and Canada

[SL63 Mark]

Oh and forgot to mention, the SBC stop feature is quite cool too, if I remember to use it.

 

[Blobcat]

I guess the ones saying I don't react early enough aren't motorcyclist still alive after 40 years riding bikes …. every ride you have to save your own life avoiding cretins in car's who don't even know how to look out of the windows

a side effect is you learn to work out what the retards are going to do (before they even know) and react very quickly

I am a motorcyclist and have been for a great many years, I’m down to 2 bikes at the moment though, a dreadful situation to be in...

 

[Philedge]

I guess the ones saying I don't react early enough aren't motorcyclist still alive after 40 years riding bikes …. every ride you have to save your own life avoiding cretins in car's who don't even know how to look out of the windows

a side effect is you learn to work out what the retards are going to do (before they even know) and react very quickly

As living motorcyclist of 43 years I can be fairly confident in saying that if your needing to "react very quickly" to cretins on the road, youre not looking far enough ahead and/or being very reactive in your riding. I for one dont have to "save my own life every ride"

Unless theres a fault in your dads SBC it sounds to me like your using the throttle/brakes too abruptly and thats what triggering the SBC to brake sharply. Might be worth get someone else to try the car before you take it for a check over.

 

[Philedge]

the feature we are discussing here is not activated by to how smoothly (or not) one drives... On the 2006 era E class with ABC (like many) it activates the ABS because it detects the speed with which you change from Throttle open to Brake light coming on. It is NOT related to how much braking input the driver is using.

Assuming your talking about SBC and not ABC, then what youre describing is not how SBC works and certainly not how it worked on my SL.

If you whip your foot off the throttle, SBC pre charges the brakes to bring the pads into contact with the discs but not that you'd notice. If you then rapidly jump on the brakes SBC applies full braking effort whilst you continue to push hard on the pedal. If you lift off or reduce the pressure on the brake pedal SBC backs off the brakes.

After youve lifted off the throttle rapidly, if you touch the brakes smoothly, SBC brakes in line with the pedal pressure.

To get SBC into emergency braking youve got to be abrupt with the throttle AND abrupt with the brakes.

 

[Botus]

Assuming your talking about SBC and not ABC,

yes a typo (I meant to write SBC) - and I was referring to a safety feature that came in around this time. It is on my father's car with SBC and is a dangerous nuisance

the occasion I most remember it getting in the way is when I was travelling through (second exit, straight on) a roundabout at around 25 to 30 mph. I was the only person on the road visible in any direction. My mother and father were in the car so I was driving smoothly and gently and I had got the car almost straight and was applying throttle to accelerate on to a 70 mph dual carriageway, when some idiot on my left, coming on to the roundabout (from what would be my first exit) doing about 50 mph came into sight and was going across my path with no intention of stopping. At all times I believed we were going to miss him, but had I don't nothing my bumper would have been within 3m of his car with a combined vehicle speed of circa 80mph -which I thought unnecessarily close, so I brushed the brake pedal to make it 5 or 6m, by the time the safety system has decided it should help by unnecessarily jamming on the ABS and generally having a hissy fit the other driver is now well gone... so I'm the only one about as the car is trying to stand on its nose for a split second and my father wakes from his dozing and has a go at me for driving like an idiot and disturbing them !!!.

 

[LostKiwi]

In other word it was acting as intended and ensuring an accident was avoided.
Personally I'd rather it did that and avoided s potential impact than do nothing and become a statistic.
I have never encountered any such issue with any EBA or SBC equipped vehicle.
If a vehicle was able to maintain 50mph into a roundabout he must have been visible for some time beforehand. Observation and anticipation would have prevented any requirement to do anything.

 

[Botus]

As I was there and know the junction and the visibility available to the other driver - perhaps that's why I correctly described him as an idiot (a hoodie half wit, in a stolen car trying to kill himself, would have been more syllables).

Anyway, more fuel for thought with some similarities but bringing a later better system in to the party....

this year I had an adaptive brake update on my distronic plus equipped S class, bringing in a huge 5 year newer software version from week 17 of 2011. And twice in the last week its decided to help me...

Both times it was an unwanted intervention and not something its used to do before the update. I knew exactly what I was doing and braking exactly the amount I wanted, when it decided I needed help and jammed on the brakes. What both systems were never built to cope with - but both decided to help me with anyway - is traffic from the side that won't remain there but it reacts to "help".

With a car crossing my path that I can see has a clear exit and is travelling at x speed so will easily clear my path before I get there (AND even if he decided to do an emergency stop he will have cleared my path no matter how hard he tries to inconvenience me) I don't need to worry about him and I can just reduce my speed for the manoeuvre I need to complete (whether he's on the road or not), thus I do not need to waste further time, money or the planet to safely proceed on my route. But the car doesn't have the same level of visibility or sensor derived information to work with, to know what he's doing. Being a rather simplistic system at y point, my car now makes a calculation saying there's an object stand on the brakes.

this fun, is why its taking a lot longer and more and more data is required to get self driving cars doing what they need to do...
and it can't be just me as half the motoring journalist are regaling stories about VWs and cross traffic issues where the car has a dangerous melt down and shakes the people about over nothing or worse parks the car in the middle of the junction as they want to accelerate

 

[LostKiwi]

On this forum there are many people with cars that are SBC, EBA or adaptive braking equipped. Not one of them has any complaints about the systems.
You however have had numerous issues across several vehicles. Draw your own conclusions.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why you drive a Mercedes given your obvious dislike of them and regular complaints.

 

[Blobcat]

On this forum there are many people with cars that are SBC, EBA or adaptive braking equipped. Not one of them has any complaints about the systems.
You however have had numerous issues across several vehicles. Draw your own conclusions.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why you drive a Mercedes given your obvious dislike of them and regular complaints.

What LK said x2

 

[flowrider]

I really dont understand how Botus can be having so many issues that he attributes to SBC, I have had none of the problems on my SL.

 

[Philedge]

@Botus. What you describe is not how SBC works on anyone elses car thats commented on this thread.

As you claim its a dangerous system and yours isnt working right, why on earth are you still driving the car on the road? You need to get the car checked over by someone who understands SBC and can work out what may be causing the weird symptoms.

 

[SL63 Mark]

I really dont understand how Botus can be having so many issues that he attributes to SBC, I have had none of the problems on my SL.

^^Same here. I have had my SL for 7 years, and no problems with SBC at all, perhaps Botas has a different system ? These three letter acronyms can be confusing.

 

[S500 Pete]

I had an S211 E500 with SBC for 11 years and no problems.
I was aware of the potential for it to time out and if I had got a warning light would have taken it in immediately. The red light only comes on if the first light is ignored.
I just viewed it as a service part just like the brake pads and you wouldn't ignore a warning light for pads.

 

[Botus]

thank you for your comments, views and thoughts. I still think an element of what I'm discussing is being missed. And tends to reinforce a point I see every drive (as a keen motorcyclist) many drivers have no what the car around them is actually doing (let alone why).

In the two recent interventions my S class made that I mention, I could be ignorant of the fact it did anything, I could think (if I'd noticed its intervention) it was helpful. Or I could think the engineers who build the first 221's were likely senior engineers at the end of their careers who thought about some of the points the car now has, but understood there would be many situations where it would get it wrong, so chose not to implement it. Now the world is run by 3 years old clueless half wits, who think software has an answer for everything they are busy buggering everything up....

Happy New Year

 

[LostKiwi]

that most drivers have no idea what they are doing or indeed what the car around them is actually doing (let alone why).

That's a sweeping generalisation and not one I would apply to many of the folks on here.
We have a very broad spectrum of car drivers on here with a wide range of driving experience and technical knowledge, many of whom will be acutely aware of what they are doing, how that affects the vehicle and how the car will in turn interact with them.
Indeed it could be said that you yourself fall into the "no idea what they are doing or indeed what the car around them is actually doing (let alone why)" category as you clearly have issues with SBC that no one else does.

Of course it could just be that your driving style is not conducive to living with electronic brake assistance systems.

Happy New Year all.

 

[Botus]

you were too quick,

I was thinking about my response before I'd read any responses properly and wrote the generalisation, I tamed it in the final one you were supposed to read

 

[Botus]

I don't have the car to hand to look for the "new" bracket holding the loom to the ABS module....

but the date of the parts indicate its probably inside affected range and looks to me if the recall came out mid 2006 and part of it was to flash the software, it may not have had it completed


SBC

MB 005 431 80 12
HW 29/05
SW 29/05
Diagnosis 0/16


ESP

MB 211 545 4832
HW 35/04
SW 49/04
Diagnosis 0/4
Date of manu 12 / 12 / 05


https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2005/RCRIT-05V133-1417.pdf

 

[AMGeed]

For any future info, this is the Bosch parts code list with dates. The top line you have written for the SBC is the full Part Number, not the date of manufacture of the pump.

To find the date, look at the code Marked B on the second link and cross check it against the dates in Link 1.
The example shown is October 2004 (Code 490)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rvJOEtWIZ9s/UCq0GNM9j_I/AAAAAAAADZA/5H2gq9GoqJY/s1600/bosch+date+codes.jpg


https://mbworld.org/forums/attachme...3d1219795018-scary-experience-sbc_replace.jpg

 

[Botus]

thanks, I'll have to take a look next time I see the car

 

[Botus]

FYI ran full diagnostics today on every module (only thing is popped left heater element on the door mirror)

just found this which is quite interesting as the noise on my fathers is enough to feel through the pedals and easily hear with engine running.

MBUSA DTB P-B-42.46/27c DEC03 - Buzzing noise during pressure buildup from SBC system. They should install a pulsation damper. The noise will not be eliminated completely however, it should be reduced substantially.


looked today at age of the SBC unit and I see its got the cable bracket… I don't get why software seems so old?
SBC
Jan 2006 681 / 18 / 1 / 0930
MB 005 431 80 12
HW 29/05
SW 29/05
Diagnosis 0/16

Lots of references to 117 bar pressure stored up in the brake system (if that means anything?)

MBUSA (in the states) Service Campaign 2005060008 JAN06
Programming Battery Control Module – The battery control module (BCM) erroneously evaluates the battery charge level as good when the actual charge level may be insufficient.

I asked about this a while back and I was told there's no update for the battery control module on this car, yet that's old software? Interestingly its where I find the brake failure count on my Autel kit and it has stored the mileage of when I changed the Aux battery

100 aux voltage 12.7V
110 aux battery recharge operations 3181.
111 reading of when aux battery recharged 105,601 miles
120 number of aux battery activations due to emergency running mode 2.
121 most recent emergency operation 93,366 miles (on 106k now and never did that to fathers knowledge or had Red message).

211 540 86 45
HW24/05
SW35/05
Diagnosis 1/1