Deadly SBC failure - warranty extension in USA and Canada

[matthew k]

I drive a SBC equipped W211, and must admit I'm a bit wary of the system. Is it actually better, the facelifted W211 has a conventional servo/master cylinder esp system.

If you took two cars, identical apart from one had the system, the other didn't and eliminated any variables, vehicle weight, tyres, brake discs/friction material would the SBC braked car stop in a shorter distance? Wet/dry, from 30,50,70,100 mph? I'm just interested that's all.

 

[Blobcat]

I drive a SBC equipped W211, and must admit I'm a bit wary of the system. Is it actually better, the facelifted W211 has a conventional servo/master cylinder esp system.

If you took two cars, identical apart from one had the system, the other didn't and eliminated any variables, vehicle weight, tyres, brake discs/friction material would the SBC braked car stop in a shorter distance? Wet/dry, from 30,50,70,100 mph? I'm just interested that's all.

The facelift W211 has OBC which pretty much does all of the things SBC does - dry the discs and sense if you’re braking in an emergency and take over. So I’d expect that to stop equally as well as an SNC car - I had one and the brakes were very good indeed

 

[Botus]

on any vehicle if the brakes are in sensible working order the distance it will stop in will be far shorter than most people imagine

dampers, tyre pressures and the quality of tyre will have more to do with stopping than the brakes (they have easily been powerful enough to lock the wheel for 55 years) - so its the grip that dictates stopping distances not the brakes

 

[flowrider]

on any vehicle if the brakes are in sensible working order the distance it will stop in will be far shorter than most people imagine

dampers, tyre pressures and the quality of tyre will have more to do with stopping than the brakes (they have easily been powerful enough to lock the wheel for 55 years) - so its the grip that dictates stopping distances not the brakes

Cant be correct otherwise why have carbon discs, performancec pads etc.

 

[Philedge]

so its the grip that dictates stopping distances not the brakes

That's not correct. Once youve got full braking effect then grip is usually the limiting factor. Stopping distance includes time to reach full braking effect which is quicker with SBC for the reasons stated many times previously.

 

[Botus]

Cant be correct otherwise why have carbon discs, performancec pads etc.

because you might want to stop like that repeatedly (rather than one brief occasion for an incident)... and for ride comfort and performance handling where you want low unsprung weight

 

[Botus]

(as tested on a Mercedes) can anyone explain why one set of tyres stops 8.5m shorter than another if its not all about grip please ?

 

[Philedge]

(as tested on a Mercedes) can anyone explain why one set of tyres stops 8.5m shorter than another if its not all about grip please ?

I guess thats a question for Michelin and Winrun engineers??

Not directly related to your question, but I dare say that if those doing the testing in the chart above fitted the same tyre to an SBC and a similar non SBC equipped car theyd see a difference in stopping distance in some common driving scenarios. Thats because there's more to stopping distance than pure tyre grip.

 

[Botus]

I could still be wrong but I now believe the issue with these "brakes failing" is when the counter tops x it disables PAB

so the reports in the USA of brake failure whilst technically inaccurate, leaves the effect almost exactly the same. As any car with servo assisted brakes that stops the assistance ends up with a brake pedal that goes very stiff and without support the driver often can't depress the pedal enough and it can very much be "like a complete loss of braking".

And the point of the post....

a £2.2k snap on scanner that just had a £1.0k software update to Autumn 2020 can't give me the count to die read out !!! As I was taking pictures of what things it can do to compare to what I thought was a more comprehensive list of my Autel kit..... I found the count to die feature of the Autel device.

Its not in live data but within a separate menu, I clicked to view and the next step it offers is to reset the count to die % !!! that's a bit alarming as no idea what it does....but by viewing death count, it just dumps you in there waiting for a response of 0, 25, 50, 75, or 100%

the car is on 606,631 but now having looked I had to choose its death %, thinking they die at 1 million, I picked 75%. But as I drove off it occurred to me does that mean 75% used or 75% left?

 

[ajlsl600]

One can only hope the situation will improve, the carnage faulty white goods are causing is criminal and the irony of that is that Whirlpool are based in the US so it’s hit and miss with regulation wherever you look another point in case being the FAA and Boeing. It seems we are entering a new era in design, manufacture and assembly cost cutting so buyer beware

No question about that.if it makes it a yr past warranty its over engineered. Is where we are heading. And the next batch of components will be built to a lower cost /std.also nuthin green about things built into housings that then require complete unit replacement.at 4/10times the cost,to us anyway.

 

[Conor]

No question about that.if it makes it a yr past warranty its over engineered. Is where we are heading. And the next batch of components will be built to a lower cost /std.also nuthin green about things built into housings that then require complete unit replacement.at 4/10times the cost,to us anyway.

The only thing that is green is the money that is extracted out of our pockets.

 

[A.J.]

id rather have an old Mercedes than a new VW pal

I have had a few VW’s in the past and in my opinion they are a good product

 

[Botus]

I guess thats a question for Michelin and Winrun engineers??

Not directly related to your question, but I dare say that if those doing the testing in the chart above fitted the same tyre to an SBC and a similar non SBC equipped car theyd see a difference in stopping distance in some common driving scenarios. Thats because there's more to stopping distance than pure tyre grip.

re reading this I didn't bring why SBC for a good driver may not help

there is plenty of evidence that a good driver can out brake ABS, its quite easy to do. SBC in panic mode just bangs on the ABS straight away.

But often it is better to build up and modulate braking force, seeking the right balance with available grip (so you don't automatically trip ABS - which is skidding and lengthening stopping distances) it also allows some stabilisation of pad and disc temperatures so the brakes are more responsive and less grabby, again reducing undesirable ABS activation. And by braking on the verge of skidding but not having ABS messing about you will stop better and much faster.

There is of course the issue of emergencies where something may have startled the driver causing the skills to wobble at a critical point. But here its why ABS & ESP should have been mandatory well before 2015. It is not a good reason why a well driven car has a stupid system that automatically operates and always lengthens your stopping distance in critical situations.

If we really cared about safety they'd use a radar, not a complicated system that was really built in an attempt to make your servicing stay within the dealer network.

 

[bembo449]

I have had a few VW’s in the past and in my opinion they are a good product

I just dont see whats so special about them pal ??

 

[A.J.]

I just dont see whats so special about them pal ??

Solid build quality at not a lot of money

 

[Botus]

Solid build quality at not a lot of money

no average to poor reliability, for more money than they should be, and these days tacky styling

 

[A.J.]

no average to poor reliability, for more money than they should be, and these days tacky styling

Each to his own, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it

 

[Conor]

Interesting. While I can drive safely and very good with regards observation, I consider my

no average to poor reliability, for more money than they should be, and these days tacky styling

I haven't checked, but recently chatting to a big VAG fan, I believe the Golf has gotten very pricey, for what it is.

 

[AMGeed]

I haven't checked, but recently chatting to a big VAG fan, I believe the Golf has gotten very pricey, for what it is.

If you are considering a VW, just buy a Skoda. Basically the same car, different badge.
If you have money to waste, buy the same car with an Audi badge.

 

[A.J.]

If you are considering a VW, just buy a Skoda. Basically the same car, different badge.
If you have money to waste, buy the same car with an Audi badge.

Precisely, it's all about image Perhaps the reason why some of us drive MB's