Mini Cooper MOT fail

[joderest]

fingers, legs, toes, eyes crossed.

 

[Frontstep]

EmilysMum has a 1600 petrol Citroen C3 which I'm lead to believe shares its engine with a Mini. Its 'thermostat' is plastic and uses an ECU controlled motorised valve instead of a proper thermostat, also the water pump is driven by the back of the 'fan belt' but isn't always driven ie when cold, the water pump is electrically moved to & from the belt as required.

At some point why wasn't the engineer responsible for these thermostats sent to the shop for some common sense.

 

[Blobcat]

At some point why wasn't the engineer responsible for these thermostats sent to the shop for some common sense.

The “Engineers” design it, it’s the Mechanics that have to maintain them and never the Twain shall meet...

 

[joderest]

Well. No leak, just hope now it does not use water.
Will keep an eye on it for a while

 

[Frontstep]

The “Engineers” design it, it’s the Mechanics that have to maintain them and never the Twain shall meet...

They should in the ring,

over 5- 3 minute rounds.

 

[joderest]

well, case closed as they say, no leaks and has maintained a good level for a week, about 400 miles.
Thanks all for comments and help.

 

[joderest]

I'm going to open this again, need some input.
The Mini runs well, no water loss, and no mis fires etc.
HOWEVER
The oil consumption issue is still there, and getting worse, i suspect valve stem oil seals for this reason...….
Engine cold, start up, fine. Drive car for half hour to work, let it idle for say 20 seconds, and then pulling away, a large cloud of BLUE smoke, this happens every time. I do not see any smoke on normal driving, even if giving a good bit of right foot.

Years ago, i would have dived in there, pulled the head off, take valves out and decoke it all, lap valves in and put on new seals and put it all back together, it was almost a routine job. On the Mini, all the front has to come off, the chassis has to be put in strip down mode (pulled forward about 20cm), engine mounts off, jack up engine to get at other bits, timing chain out after locking flywheel and cams, then head off, then cams out, then etc etc etc.

I have not got what it takes now, so looking for a company to do it in Kent or East Sussex, but they are thin on the ground unless you go to Mini and have open wallet surgery.
Parts alone would be about £350, then the tools you have to buy about another £150. I would expect a Mini specialist would charge about £1000 for work, as may as well replace cam chain, guides and tensioner at the same time (it is due this anyway).

I have to ask, am i getting lazy, or is i just that modern cars are just too complicated for a home mechanic to do major work on. It does appear one tooth out on the cam timing will destroy the engine, as i say, in the old days a head off and decoke was routine and easy.

We want to keep the car, as its clean and tidy, no faults except this, and it would cost far more to replace it with something newer that still might have an issue, oh, and the wife loves the car !!!!!

 

[joderest]

Well, i have tried seven garages, two of which were Mini Specialists, so far six have declined the job, just waiting for the last one to make contact, i think i have worked out why...., and people think Mercedes are difficult !!!!!
This PSA engine is fitted with a system call VALVETRONIC which is a system within the head, it controls fuel flow, and does away with the throttle body (i am told). To strip the head to replace the oil seals is very difficult, long winded and requires very special tools. When its put back together, it has to be matched with the ECU and the system primed so it can self learn, again at substantial cost and time.
Four of the garages advice was to scrap the car for parts !!!! just because 16 seals have gone hard and leak. I am going to try a Mini main dealer, just to see what they say. Its such a shame, as its been a ****** good little car for 7 years. Talk about a throw away society.

 

[LostKiwi]

I wonder if the old string down the plug hole, piston to tdc, pop the valve spring out method would work....

 

[Kev555]

Just a little video for ideas Joderest. This guy has used his head getting around this problem. But this is only useful if you are tackling it yourself.

 

[davidsl500]

It may be cheaper to drop another engine in from ebay £299 upwards on there...

 

[Kev555]

I'm going to open this again, need some input.
The Mini runs well, no water loss, and no mis fires etc.
HOWEVER
The oil consumption issue is still there, and getting worse, i suspect valve stem oil seals for this reason...….
Engine cold, start up, fine. Drive car for half hour to work, let it idle for say 20 seconds, and then pulling away, a large cloud of BLUE smoke, this happens every time. I do not see any smoke on normal driving, even if giving a good bit of right foot.

Years ago, i would have dived in there, pulled the head off, take valves out and decoke it all, lap valves in and put on new seals and put it all back together, it was almost a routine job. On the Mini, all the front has to come off, the chassis has to be put in strip down mode (pulled forward about 20cm), engine mounts off, jack up engine to get at other bits, timing chain out after locking flywheel and cams, then head off, then cams out, then etc etc etc.

I have not got what it takes now, so looking for a company to do it in Kent or East Sussex, but they are thin on the ground unless you go to Mini and have open wallet surgery.
Parts alone would be about £350, then the tools you have to buy about another £150. I would expect a Mini specialist would charge about £1000 for work, as may as well replace cam chain, guides and tensioner at the same time (it is due this anyway).

I have to ask, am i getting lazy, or is i just that modern cars are just too complicated for a home mechanic to do major work on. It does appear one tooth out on the cam timing will destroy the engine, as i say, in the old days a head off and decoke was routine and easy.

We want to keep the car, as its clean and tidy, no faults except this, and it would cost far more to replace it with something newer that still might have an issue, oh, and the wife loves the car !!!!!

Not on your own Joderest I find as I get older and cars get more technologically complicated I loose a certain amount of self confidence in doing the same jobs I would have tackled in a heartbeat a few years back. I find being partly computer illiterate (understanding diagnostic readings, live data or programming) makes it just impossible sometimes to complete the technology side of a repair if it wasnt for help from dedicated forums like here. I should have added owning the diagnostic equipment is hard and economically unviable too at times

 

[joderest]

Final chapter.
Had a local garage do some tests, cylinder 1 is down on compression, rings or valves, the guy, who I trust a bit, thought more likely a dodgy exhaust valve, which would explain all. He also declined to work on the car due to the valvetronic system, he said they can only be rebuilt by a head specialist, and cost, just for head alone would be about £1200.
Spoke to a Mini dealer, who stated would cost £5000 to fix. And they would want £2000 up front before starting.
So have decided, sadly, to part with car and let someone else have the problem.
Wife went out yesterday and found herself another Mini, 66 plate 1.5 cooper D. Has 16,000 miles, she drove it and thought a vast improvement on our little car. I spoke to the dealer, explained to him about the issue with our Mini, he was ok and offered £1800 for it as rest of car very clean, excepted and had open wallet surgery for new car, £6500.
He also gave a years warranty, and not a company one, their own as have own workshops. It's an ex mobility car so I know anything it needed in the past has been done.
Sad end really, would have liked to have our little car repaired, but have to consider the costs. Oh well, suppose in the end you have to be sensible .

 

[joderest]

Just a foot note.
Ebay'ed Mini Cooper spares or repair.
There are quite a few on there with nearly the same issue, seems that these PSA engines get past 100,000 odd miles, and if you are unlucky, they go.
My daughter has a R56 Cooper with 135,000, and does not hardly use oil, and runs well, but it is the lower power output one (she's only 19, so helped on insurance and tax)
I have read a lot about the BMW 3 cylinder diesel engine fitted in this Mini we have bought, and seems its well liked.