Grand Jeep Cherokee 2.7 5th Injector issue

[Steve@Avantgarde]

Its because the injector bolt is a stretch bolt, and if you cut it to M10 then you will have to entertain a tensile steel bolt which will not maintain the correct torque when the engine gets hot and it will blow the injector out of the engine.

Price Brothers in Avonmouth repair this kind of fault by drilling the existing thread out to M8 and then tapping an M6 thread into that insert, then you can use the existing bolt and do the repair properly.

Anything else is just a bodge. There are plenty of threads on this subject that I and others have written and debated on. Truth is, i've never seen a successful repair using a tensile steel bolt that has ever lasted more than 1000 miles before it starts leaking again.

 

[mavar1ck]

Follow the hoses, on the W163 it is top, right hand side at the front of the engine (looking from the front of the vehicle).

Hi is there anything I should look out for?

 

[mavar1ck]

Its because the injector bolt is a stretch bolt, and if you cut it to M10 then you will have to entertain a tensile steel bolt which will not maintain the correct torque when the engine gets hot and it will blow the injector out of the engine.

Price Brothers in Avonmouth repair this kind of fault by drilling the existing thread out to M8 and then tapping an M6 thread into that insert, then you can use the existing bolt and do the repair properly.

Anything else is just a bodge. There are plenty of threads on this subject that I and others have written and debated on. Truth is, i've never seen a successful repair using a tensile steel bolt that has ever lasted more than 1000 miles before it starts leaking again.

Hi, hole was already to big for M8 that was the problem. The repair was carried out by an experienced diesel repair specialist who have been in business for nearly 70years. That have given me a 12 month guarantee so hopefully will be ok.
I have never found a car so interesting with its faults.

 

[Mark A]

Large rubber hose going into a cast housing, ECP link below for reference.

https://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/...34e2bcbfc6b00d99f702a7838dfce623ed40cc&000325

 

[mavar1ck]

Just got back from 100 mile round trip longest I have done to date. Temp not really got above 50 so will change thermostat Sunday.
New problem ABS light is now on and brakes binding. Just had 4 new discs and new brake fluid and front brake lines for MOT. Will take back to garage but any ideas?

 

[fabes]

Calipers now...?

Just emtpy your wallet, piggy bank account kids college fund if you strive on with the car
You must love it

 

[M80]

ABS could be rust on a commutator,
or a faulty wheel sensor.
I've 3 I think, in the garage, where are you?

The brakes may be hand brake binding when warmed, how much play is there at the lever?
The caliper sliders can get rusty. It's happened on ours a couple of times and only becomes apparent when tested for the MOT.
Rusty pads can cause it too.

 

[mavar1ck]

ABS could be rust on a commutator,
or a faulty wheel sensor.
I've 3 I think, in the garage, where are you?

The brakes may be hand brake binding when warmed, how much play is there at the lever?
The caliper sliders can get rusty. It's happened on ours a couple of times and only becomes apparent when tested for the MOT.
Rusty pads can cause it too.

Hi, Bingham but I work in Derby. Not much play on lever as everything had to be renewed for MOT. I will let the garage take a look guy is pretty decent and likes to do a good used him for years on all our vehicles. Could it be something that has not been re-connected correctly during the work? I assume handbrake is not self adjusting then?
Thanks
Brian

 

[RUBBER_UNDIES]

If the choice is the write off the vehicle then sealing the injector in for the rest of the vehicles life can only be a benefit. I'm not sure what type of 'sealant' might be good for that though.

Look at TRADE WELD. IT FIXES ANYTHING!!!!!

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

Look at TRADE WELD. IT FIXES ANYTHING!!!!!

Or bodges anything.

 

[Westheath]

OK replace:
cylinder head
injectors and pipes
bolts
washers
blah blah blah

Anything else is a bodge.

Now convince the customer whos 2004 Mercs worth £1500
that you want to spend £2000 trying to make an OEM repair.

Truth is, i've never seen a successful repair using a tensile steel bolt that has ever lasted more than 1000 miles before it starts leaking again.

You mean the truth is if the oem fitted bolt was up to doing the job all other diesel engine manufacturers manage to do correctly there would be no need for the repair in the first place.

No one else apart from Mercedes (afaik) use a straw length thin bolt to hold a full sized common rail diesel injector in place.

The ability to think outside the box does work.

The MB box isn't filled with the right or wrong way to do repairs,
just a way to do repairs when the vehicle is 100% condition and in a MB factory.

 

[M80]

For sure you've to consider the total spend on the motor and if it can be justified given that the value may only be around the £2k mark.
If you think you might want to use it for any distance be sure you have get you home break down cover.

If there's little play in the handbrake lever, considering you're brakes have just had attention the handbrake shoes might be adjusted too close, a bit of warming and then binding.
ABS could be a number of things, I'm not sure if plug in diagnostics are so good for these to point to which is playing up.

These motors can do ok, and ours has far less rust underside than a Merc of similar age. I thought it was time to let it expire gracefully at last MOT but a new tyre and draglink end and it's still going, it's only done 83k miles and usually is Larisa's commute car.
We used it to drop the Viano off with Steve on Saturday, then continue down to Devon. An easy enough round trip drive of 550 miles for it, but the consumption was pants, even at a steady 60.
My personal view is that although it might be good for a few years if repaired correctly you should be cautious in how much you spend on it. For distance drives there are more comfortable motors out there, the engine noise and poor suspension detract from a nice long drive.

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

OK replace:
cylinder head
injectors and pipes
bolts
washers
blah blah blah

Anything else is a bodge.

Now convince the customer whos 2004 Mercs worth £1500
that you want to spend £2000 trying to make an OEM repair.



You mean the truth is if the oem fitted bolt was up to doing the job all other diesel engine manufacturers manage to do correctly there would be no need for the repair in the first place.

No one else apart from Mercedes (afaik) use a straw length thin bolt to hold a full sized common rail diesel injector in place.

The ability to think outside the box does work.

The MB box isn't filled with the right or wrong way to do repairs,
just a way to do repairs when the vehicle is 100% condition and in a MB factory.

Who said anything about replacing the cylinder head, pipes or spending £1500?

How is it I can do repairs as I have said, which will be guaranteed for at least 60k miles if not more, properly, which comes in nowhere near your pie in the sky figure, when all the bodges Ive seen mention barely last 1000 miles.

It's not about what is in the MB box, its down to good engineering practice. Now what you choose to do to your car on a saturday afternoon on your driveway is entirely your own look out, which is cool, but when it doesnt work for the next man and they come rolling in to me, STAR, MBS or whomever, I won't be afraid to call anyone out on the substandard repair.

Black death happens on every single common rail diesel whether they use threaded injector bodies, clamps and bolts (of various pitches and strengths) or studs and nuts. I've seen it on just about every single engine manufacturer. So perhaps no one has the right answer, but I am sure millions were spent on R&D coming up with the best solution for that particular engine and in MB's case, that is the best one, so it should be re-engineered that way should it ever need to be.

 

[Westheath]

The Black Death is a description born of Mercedes Benz CDI injector seal failure.

I have never seen the frequency of injector seals leaking anywhere else as they do on Mercedes CDI engines.

I have never seen injector bolt failures anywhere else as they do on Mercedes CDI engines.

I have repaired oem injector bolts, that have been repaired/replaced before,
as the customer refuses to go back to an independent repairer
due to multiple oem failures after £1000's spent, they are looking for a permanent repair.

The bodges I have seen from "MB independent" are no different
from any other garage ill equipped to deal with minor repairs such as these.

Not being an "independent" garage I deal with all marques from Ferrari to Yugo so I see a wide engineering application from glass, rubber to metal handling repairs/replacement, Independents come to us for work they cannot economically handle.

The right answer is the one that works and keeps the customer a returning one happy one.

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

BMW 4 cylinders are known for it, done loads of those.

Vauxhall, which is a Peugeot engine I believe are known for it. Ford TDCI engines have had it. Like I say, I've worked on loads that suffer with this issue.

It became known as black death because of it shot to fame mainly in the Vito, where you have zero room to work and I heard horror stories of people lifting heads off or drilling injectors out at thousands of pounds which led to write the cost of the vans off.

I can only speak as I find, and as I've maintained, I've seen loads of injectors held in with steel tensile bolts which don't solve the issues and cause more problems in the long run. And carrying out the repair I get done, I have never had one come back with the same issue.

I'm not saying MB get everything right, and this injector example is something they never really mastered. But there was good reason for doing it and I've not seen anything better "modified" that has worked on this engine that has the same relative longevity.

 

[Marcus_J]

If the garage pulls the fifth injector and breaks it or any injector. Is this a possibility or just a mistake on their part? I mean breaking it while taking it out.

 

[joderest]

Its not just Mercedes. A local garage where i work had a 2011 Mini Cooper Diesel with "black death" on two injectors, all four had to have seals done, and one injector broke as it would not come out, and they spent a couple of days trying to shift it before it broke.
It seems to be quite common on other makes, just not reported so much.