W204 front tyre shoulder wear... change from 225 to 235 width?

[moj91]

Good Evening.

From almost new I've had my W204 C250, with the 18" AMG IV wheels. I've always suffered severe outer shoulder wear on the front 225 tyres. (Recently exacerbated by failing bushes).
I've had the offending bush(es) replaced with genuine parts, and the alignment adjusted.

Now, having always had issues with the front tyres chewing out the outer shoulders when the middle 3/4 tread area has 4-5mm tread life left, I have come to the decision to try to improve the situation as I am wasting good tyres, and now need new ones again to replace the worn shoulder ones. I've seen other W204's with the same size wheels and they all also seem to suffer the same poor wear characteristics.

The front wheels are 8Jx18, ET50. I used to have 7.5J x 18 wheels on my old Astra SRi, with 225 tyres and, driving that hard, never suffered the same issue.

I get the impression that these 8" wide front rims are better suited to a 235 wide tyre, which will give a 'squarer' fitment of the tyre. So my questions are:

Does anyone know if a 235 wide tyre will fit the W204, with these rims on an ET50 offset (the actual AMG's on 18" rims have a ET45 offset, on a 235 tyre, so according to the online wheel fitment calculators sit 5mm further out/away from the suspension).

And... will fitting a wider, thus 'squarer' tyre reduce tyre rollover and hopefully reduce shoulder wear?

...I don't fancy ordering a pair of 235 premium tyres to find they catch/rub.

Or does anyone know of any other solutions? I am aware that MB have their cars set at a quite high positive camber, which as far as i can tell does not help the situation.

(I've trawled the forums for the same questions and answers but I'm struggling to find info - sorry if this has been covered before, which i suspect it has!)

 

[bembo449]

I doubt 10mm wider will catch , it will afford your alloys better protection and possibly less outer edge wear but its not a common thing to do so you may have to pioneer the idea

 

[flowrider]

Good Evening.

From almost new I've had my W204 C250, with the 18" AMG IV wheels. I've always suffered severe outer shoulder wear on the front 225 tyres. (Recently exacerbated by failing bushes).
I've had the offending bush(es) replaced with genuine parts, and the alignment adjusted.

Now, having always had issues with the front tyres chewing out the outer shoulders when the middle 3/4 tread area has 4-5mm tread life left, I have come to the decision to try to improve the situation as I am wasting good tyres, and now need new ones again to replace the worn shoulder ones. I've seen other W204's with the same size wheels and they all also seem to suffer the same poor wear characteristics.

The front wheels are 8Jx18, ET50. I used to have 7.5J x 18 wheels on my old Astra SRi, with 225 tyres and, driving that hard, never suffered the same issue.

I get the impression that these 8" wide front rims are better suited to a 235 wide tyre, which will give a 'squarer' fitment of the tyre. So my questions are:

Does anyone know if a 235 wide tyre will fit the W204, with these rims on an ET50 offset (the actual AMG's on 18" rims have a ET45 offset, on a 235 tyre, so according to the online wheel fitment calculators sit 5mm further out/away from the suspension).

And... will fitting a wider, thus 'squarer' tyre reduce tyre rollover and hopefully reduce shoulder wear?

...I don't fancy ordering a pair of 235 premium tyres to find they catch/rub.

Or does anyone know of any other solutions? I am aware that MB have their cars set at a quite high positive camber, which as far as i can tell does not help the situation.

(I've trawled the forums for the same questions and answers but I'm struggling to find info - sorry if this has been covered before, which i suspect it has!)

According to this site you have the correct wheels with the correct tyre size....
https://www.alloywheelsdirect.net/m..._class_saloon_w204_alloys/18_amg_iv_wheel_414

 

[moj91]

According to this site you have the correct wheels with the correct tyre size....
https://www.alloywheelsdirect.net/m..._class_saloon_w204_alloys/18_amg_iv_wheel_414

I am aware - however the 225 on this 8" rim is a poor fit, with a 225 being the minimum generally accepted for fitment to an 8" rim, 235 being the generally recommended and a 245 being the widest for fitment to an 8" wide rim (not accounting for any particular vehicle, just in general)

 

[robin.large]

I haven't any experience with the 204 but. For me I'd investigate the more obvious (read easier) fixes such as a little less toe in or a bit more pressure and see how that works out.
If it is a suspension geometry issue such as camber a wider tyre will load up the bearings a little more and not necessarily improve the wear you describe?
Also, and I only became familiar with this recently, is that even in same tyre name and description tyres there are specific attributes for an MB tyre designation. I've yet to find out what is actually different though?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

 

[Dean Fletcher]

Good Evening.

From almost new I've had my W204 C250, with the 18" AMG IV wheels. I've always suffered severe outer shoulder wear on the front 225 tyres. (Recently exacerbated by failing bushes).
I've had the offending bush(es) replaced with genuine parts, and the alignment adjusted.

Now, having always had issues with the front tyres chewing out the outer shoulders when the middle 3/4 tread area has 4-5mm tread life left, I have come to the decision to try to improve the situation as I am wasting good tyres, and now need new ones again to replace the worn shoulder ones. I've seen other W204's with the same size wheels and they all also seem to suffer the same poor wear characteristics.

The front wheels are 8Jx18, ET50. I used to have 7.5J x 18 wheels on my old Astra SRi, with 225 tyres and, driving that hard, never suffered the same issue.

I get the impression that these 8" wide front rims are better suited to a 235 wide tyre, which will give a 'squarer' fitment of the tyre. So my questions are:

Does anyone know if a 235 wide tyre will fit the W204, with these rims on an ET50 offset (the actual AMG's on 18" rims have a ET45 offset, on a 235 tyre, so according to the online wheel fitment calculators sit 5mm further out/away from the suspension).

And... will fitting a wider, thus 'squarer' tyre reduce tyre rollover and hopefully reduce shoulder wear?

...I don't fancy ordering a pair of 235 premium tyres to find they catch/rub.

Or does anyone know of any other solutions? I am aware that MB have their cars set at a quite high positive camber, which as far as i can tell does not help the situation.

(I've trawled the forums for the same questions and answers but I'm struggling to find info - sorry if this has been covered before, which i suspect it has!)

I have the 235s on the front of my C207 and have terrible outerwear. Had the aligned etc and it never makes a difference. I'm just living with it.

 

[moj91]

I haven't any experience with the 204 but. For me I'd investigate the more obvious (read easier) fixes such as a little less toe in or a bit more pressure and see how that works out.
If it is a suspension geometry issue such as camber a wider tyre will load up the bearings a little more and not necessarily improve the wear you describe?
Also, and I only became familiar with this recently, is that even in same tyre name and description tyres there are specific attributes for an MB tyre designation. I've yet to find out what is actually different though?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

I'm hoping almost for a magic answer along the lines of 'I adjusted x and found it improved the wear without a major downside'. However, for example, @Dean Fletcher mentions that his C207 is on 235 fronts, and he is suffering the same issue. I wonder what rim width you have on yours?

I've just measured, the inner tread has 4.5,mm across the tread, but the outer shoulder is through to the cords

With the 'MO' specification tyres, i have heard many contradicting explanations, from 'approved to meet the performance and handling characteristics MB requires' to 'higher level of QC to reduce balance and vibration issues' to 'harder wearing compound to reduce wear'. No idea which or if all are true.

 

[robin.large]

That level of mismatch suggests something isn't right. If it's just outer then it isn't tyre pressures for sure.
Try talking to MB at some level other than dealer?

It shouldn't be camber as that is generally fixed in any case.
Castor is likewise fixed.
Occasionally cars can be very sensitised to the recommended make/type of tyre?
If it were me I would experiment with toe in/out and go for neutral?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

 

[robin.large]

And thinking more on this - suspension height (worn springs) can set the camber out ( and as MB go heavy on positive camber anyway) and instead of tracking might be worth a full 4 wheel alignment?

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[LostKiwi]

And thinking more on this - suspension height (worn springs) can set the camber out ( and as MB go heavy on positive camber anyway) and instead of tracking might be worth a full 4 wheel alignment?
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Go heavy on positive camber? Not that I've ever seen...
They do use a lot of caster however (typically 8 degrees or more).
Take it to Wheels in Motion in Buckinghamshire. They are the go to for wheel alignment and geometry issues.
It sounds to me that you either have toe in or insufficient caster giving insufficient camber on steering. If you drive hard try increasing pressure as low pressure will cause the tyre to deform (wider tyres will aggravate this).

 

[Dean Fletcher]

I'm hoping almost for a magic answer along the lines of 'I adjusted x and found it improved the wear without a major downside'. However, for example, @Dean Fletcher mentions that his C207 is on 235 fronts, and he is suffering the same issue. I wonder what rim width you have on yours?

I've just measured, the inner tread has 4.5,mm across the tread, but the outer shoulder is through to the cords

With the 'MO' specification tyres, i have heard many contradicting explanations, from 'approved to meet the performance and handling characteristics MB requires' to 'higher level of QC to reduce balance and vibration issues' to 'harder wearing compound to reduce wear'. No idea which or if all are true.

Couldn't tell you, I have the standard 18inch AMG rims. Came with the car.

 

[JBell]

They all do that due to the angle the steering puts the wheels at. Nothing will stop it

Make sure the tracking is bang on as well

 

[onefortheroad]

I'm on 19 inch with a 235 profile. My c250 was on 18 inch 225 40 18.

 

[moj91]

That level of mismatch suggests something isn't right. If it's just outer then it isn't tyre pressures for sure.
Try talking to MB at some level other than dealer?

It shouldn't be camber as that is generally fixed in any case.
Castor is likewise fixed.
Occasionally cars can be very sensitised to the recommended make/type of tyre?
If it were me I would experiment with toe in/out and go for neutral?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

That's what I'm tempted to do - albeit i do not know if there is much in the way of possible adjustment on these cars...

 

[moj91]

And thinking more on this - suspension height (worn springs) can set the camber out ( and as MB go heavy on positive camber anyway) and instead of tracking might be worth a full 4 wheel alignment?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Both front springs are new, mb oem, as are the lower arms. 4 wheel alignment carried out also about 5 months ago.

 

[moj91]

Go heavy on positive camber? Not that I've ever seen...
They do use a lot of caster however (typically 8 degrees or more).
Take it to Wheels in Motion in Buckinghamshire. They are the go to for wheel alignment and geometry issues.
It sounds to me that you either have toe in or insufficient caster giving insufficient camber on steering. If you drive hard try increasing pressure as low pressure will cause the tyre to deform (wider tyres will aggravate this).

I run the front tyres at around 36psi cold - although i was under the impression that higher pressure would allow the tyre to 'roll' onto the outer shoulder during cornering as the tyre would effectively be more ballooned?
Wheels in motion arent far from me so i might give them a call. Im going to get the front wheels checked for any deformation at Wheel Clinic this week before replacing the damaged tyre.
I had also read that mb run a lot of caster from factory.

 

[moj91]

They all do that due to the angle the steering puts the wheels at. Nothing will stop it

Make sure the tracking is bang on as well

This was my concern - however having to replace front tyres with nearly 5mm tread left is getting painful. I think i might start looking for and fitting premium part worns, without any significant shoulder wear, hopefully the shoulders will last long enough for the central tread to wear down to an acceptable level.

 

[LostKiwi]

I run the front tyres at around 36psi cold - although i was under the impression that higher pressure would allow the tyre to 'roll' onto the outer shoulder during cornering as the tyre would effectively be more ballooned?
Wheels in motion arent far from me so i might give them a call. Im going to get the front wheels checked for any deformation at Wheel Clinic this week before replacing the damaged tyre.
I had also read that mb run a lot of caster from factory.

High pressure effectively makes the tyre stiffer and allows the tyre to deform less than low pressures.

 

[Gazwould]

Suffering the same..

What is the front toe setting ?

 

[JBell]

This was my concern - however having to replace front tyres with nearly 5mm tread left is getting painful. I think i might start looking for and fitting premium part worns, without any significant shoulder wear, hopefully the shoulders will last long enough for the central tread to wear down to an acceptable level. View attachment 61092

Mine do exactly the same it is purely down to the angle the steering geometry puts the wheels at.

I use Uniroyal RS5 tyres, good value so not too painful when you have to change them with tread left on