Garage Rebuild

[eman]

You mentioned in an earlier thread about making provisions for a car charger. While you have open trenches it might be an idea to get some earth rods into the ground and the Earth cable where your thinking of fixing the charger. You can’t use your existing house earth for car chargers anymore. Unless your earth is TT at the moment (earth spike supplied). Better still get them to lay a sheet of concrete reinforcement grid under your new drive and earth of that.

 

[eman]

Edit that you can get a Zappi charger now that has it’s own pen built in so you can come of your pme earthing system. Down side they are expensive.

 

[Tony Dyson]

You mentioned in an earlier thread about making provisions for a car charger. While you have open trenches it might be an idea to get some earth rods into the ground and the Earth cable where your thinking of fixing the charger. You can’t use your existing house earth for car chargers anymore. Unless your earth is TT at the moment (earth spike supplied). Better still get them to lay a sheet of concrete reinforcement grid under your new drive and earth of that.

I'm not active within the industry any more but this news is new to me, do you have any more details of it's origin and the reasons for change?

 

[00slk]

Haven't done any more investigation on putting in 3 phase power as someone mentioned to me that I'd be looking around £3000 to put in a cable from the power pole outside our house
We are still weighing up whether it will be viable or not.
Had the building inspector drop by to check on the foundation footing, all okay so concreting the trench will now proceed shortly. Can't use the same trench for a power cable though.

 

[Chrishazle]

Shame, as that may mean you can't put a high rate electric charging point in - although I may well be wrong!!

 

[eman]

Your dno won’t put a 3phase supply into domestic premises and no one else can touch it

 

[eman]

I'm not active within the industry any more but this news is new to me, do you have any more details of it's origin and the reasons for change?

It’s all the the regs now. There’s even a regs book for EV charging. A couple of years back you could come off your pme but now you need a TT system (spike in the ground) If you don’t have a Zappi charger. I dare say other makes might go the same way but will put the cost of a charger up.

 

[Tony Dyson]

It’s all the the regs now. There’s even a regs book for EV charging. A couple of years back you could come off your pme but now you need a TT system (spike in the ground) If you don’t have a Zappi charger. I dare say other makes might go the same way but will put the cost of a charger up.

Interesting, I can't think of a reason why a TT Earthing arrangement would be favourable over a copper link to the network PME ? Well you live and learn!

 

[eman]

Without hi jacking 00slks thread I think it’s to do with the car charging at the full 32 amps its on Charge unlike your cooker clicking in and out on the stat. It does have its faults though as a spike needs to be 5mts from any metal in the ground that’s connected to your house pme. So gas/water bonded unless you live in a new house where these would be plastic. How many households have this much room to spike.

 

[00slk]

No hi jack Ian, all good and part of any rebuild especially if one is complempating an EV for the future?

 

[Chrishazle]

Your dno won’t put a 3phase supply into domestic premises and no one else can touch it

Not quite sure what you mean by this Ian, I thought I was the one with dyslexic fingers! Anyway, the houses on our cul-de-sac were all built late 80's-early 90's and many/most have 3 phase electrical supply, probably for electric storage heater central heating either individual heaters (as I'm sure ours was) or a large unit with a water circulating system and radiators, as a neighbour ripped out a year or so back when he had gas installed. Supply is all underground, as overhead wires are not allowed here.

As OP is having a large garage built, a 3 phase supply would be advantageous for equipment like a 2 or 4 post lift, as 3 phase gear is markedly cheaper than single phase. Haven't priced garage equipment, but I know that if I could have easily routed a 3 phase supply to my carpentry workshop then things like table saw, planer/thicknesser as well as other "major" bits of kit would have been cheaper. Plus, of course, OP could have a high power EV charger (or 2??) installed.

Inside the house the only real difference between 3 phase and single phase is that I have 3 consumer units instead of 1, which can be handy as 1 earth leak breaker trip only takes out 1 of the 3 phases, leaving the other 2 live.

 

[Kev555]

Not quite sure what you mean by this Ian, I thought I was the one with dyslexic fingers! Anyway, the houses on our cul-de-sac were all built late 80's-early 90's and many/most have 3 phase electrical supply, probably for electric storage heater central heating either individual heaters (as I'm sure ours was) or a large unit with a water circulating system and radiators, as a neighbour ripped out a year or so back when he had gas installed. Supply is all underground, as overhead wires are not allowed here.

As OP is having a large garage built, a 3 phase supply would be advantageous for equipment like a 2 or 4 post lift, as 3 phase gear is markedly cheaper than single phase. Haven't priced garage equipment, but I know that if I could have easily routed a 3 phase supply to my carpentry workshop then things like table saw, planer/thicknesser as well as other "major" bits of kit would have been cheaper. Plus, of course, OP could have a high power EV charger (or 2??) installed.

Inside the house the only real difference between 3 phase and single phase is that I have 3 consumer units instead of 1, which can be handy as 1 earth leak breaker trip only takes out 1 of the 3 phases, leaving the other 2 live.

That sounds like a rare occurrence Chris for a power supply to domestic properties as ive never heard of it before unless its more common in England. Only way ive seen it cost effectively achieved in a domestic setting for car lifts lathes or general 3 phase applications etc is through a 240 to 3 phase convertor.

 

[Frontstep]

We had 3-phase in our last house I think 7 meters in the cellar.

It had in the past storage heaters fitted and some attendant barmy bills to heat the 12-foot ceilings, the garden oh, and the roof for the pigeons.

Why I am not sure as there was mains gas.

 

[alexanderfoti]

I'm not active within the industry any more but this news is new to me, do you have any more details of it's origin and the reasons for change?

Also news to me, but also not an electrician so not suprising!

I have recently put in a 32amp commando socket (single phase) for the renault zoe, it is wired to a consumer unit we added into the garage, in its own MCBO, so its sharing its earth with the house.......

 

[Tony Dyson]

It’s all the the regs now. There’s even a regs book for EV charging. A couple of years back you could come off your pme but now you need a TT system (spike in the ground) If you don’t have a Zappi charger. I dare say other makes might go the same way but will put the cost of a charger up.

Without hi jacking 00slks thread I think it’s to do with the car charging at the full 32 amps its on Charge unlike your cooker clicking in and out on the stat. It does have its faults though as a spike needs to be 5mts from any metal in the ground that’s connected to your house pme. So gas/water bonded unless you live in a new house where these would be plastic. How many households have this much room to spike.

I had a look at the Zappi Charger and found a detailed explanation behind the need for regulation change and a TT Earthing arrangement for EV Charging here: https://myenergi.com/pen-protection/#:~:text=As this is a new,fault current through the vehicle. It all makes clear sense and I would think the additional cost of an EV Charge point that complies with 722.441.4.1 as an option against the costs of investigating and installing an additional TT Earthing arrangement at the point of use would be well worth it? But that should need to be evaluated on an individual basis. If the OP is considering installing an EV charge point then now would be a good time to do it, I would talk to an OLEV approved installer so you can take advantage of any grants available.

 

[Tony Dyson]

Also news to me, but also not an electrician so not suprising!

I have recently put in a 32amp commando socket (single phase) for the renault zoe, it is wired to a consumer unit we added into the garage, in its own MCBO, so its sharing its earth with the house.......

There was a regulation change that came into force in Jan 2019 and essentially, as notified by @eman and if you read the contents in the link I posted above, in the event of a failure in part of a main installation there is a risk of electric shock via a car connected to an EV Charging point so additional measures have to be taken in order to mitigate this recently identified risk in the form of additional TT Earthing arrangements at the point of use, or the installation of a device that will automatically disconnect the power supply in the event of failure in the main installation such as the feature in a Zappi Charger.

 

[00slk]

We kind have gone off the idea now of 3 phase and an electric vehicle too, discussing it to we have come to the conclusion that its more trouble than its worth with our plans with driving and last minute decision on going away some where. The cost recouped, we will be long gone before that happens so we are happy enough to drive our gas guzzlers and nit have to prepare a week in advance to go anywhere like my mates Brother in law
However better things are on the go right now with the cement lorry and foundation's poured today ready for the bricklayer next week

 

[00slk]

Some hard graft by me and the Missus today in preparation for the bricklayer this week.
Moved about 250 solid concrete blocks from the driveway to infield making it easier for the bricky
Now ache all over.......Fish n Chips for tea tonight

 

[davemercedes]

Well done you two - those things get heavier by the minute!

If you've got a Numark chemist nearby their muscle rub is lots cheaper than the advertised ones, and it doesn't sting or burn but we found it really helps.

 

[00slk]

Well done you two - those things get heavier by the minute!

If you've got a Numark chemist nearby their muscle rub is lots cheaper than the advertised ones, and it doesn't sting or burn but we found it really helps.

Thanks Dave, we're just glad the contractors left their digger here, means we can't stack more with it in the way
The Missus and I are used to hard work.
Helps that she is in the medical trade, knows when to tell me to stop!
Fish n Chips done, and an early night