“Upgrade” from w124 to w210

[njpumphrey]

Having had my trusty 1994 w124 E300 24v diesel estate for a few years and having cash in my pocket I thought I would have a look at upgrading it to the newer model. I looked at a 2001 w210 E320CDi last night and although it was quite smart it didn’t seem as luxurious or as solid as my current car. I know there is a feeling amongst some that the w210s are no better than the w124 but is this really true? If I trade “up” will I regret it?

Another thing is the value of my w124 – I thought it was pretty stable between £2.5-3k, and wouldn’t have dropped much as I don’t drive much and I have looked after it well. However, it looks like I might struggle to sell it for £2k at the moment. Is this right?

Cheers,

Nick

 

[jberks]

All cars have dropped recently so your current one will have too, though your car will appeal to enthusiasts so the effect should be less pronounced and have more to do with condition than anything else.
I always felt the 210 was more luxurious than the 124, with all its gadgets and little touches like the ambient lighting etc. But yes, nothing is as well built or trouble free as a 124. That was pretty much the pinnacle of MB construction.
That said, there isn't much comparison between the 300d and 320cdi. The newer engine is light years ahead.

 

[simon_wall69]

Considering the same thing myself but would go for the 300 turbodiesel as it will run on veg oil. I think 210s are much more refined more modern cars in a lot of other ways, you just have to be aware that there will be a few more issues with the quality of the later ones.

The old w124 diesels are rather slow, even the multivalves are sluggish.

 

[deejaybee]

I have run an E280 and 220TE W124 and an E320 W210, all petrols, but I have also looked at and driven diesel varieties of both the W124 and W210. In terms of the feel of the car the W210 is definitely a more modern car and at quick aquantence it is probably true to say that it would feel like an improvement over the W124. However, it is true to say that the actual quality of construction and materials is better on the W124. Particularly with the rust issues surrounding W210s and the more sophisticated electronics they are not as good a proposition to run as an older car on a limited budget. Having said that the reason I had a W210 at all was that when I was looking for a replacement car earlier this summer there were no decent W124's around that were in reasonable condition without being well overpriced. The W210 I bought had a few maintenence issues to sort out and had a bit of rust in the normal places but not too much - it was also cheap!!.

I think as long as you are prepared to take your time to seek out a really good example, a W210 E320Cdi would be an excellent car with a modern feel. Just make sure you look thoroughly for rust in all the right places and only buy a sound one. Also, my own advice would be to try and find one with reasonable mileage, say around 80-100K that has already had the glowplugs replaced once. From my own personal experience I would say don't go down the high mileage route. It is true that a well maintained car will do an astronomical mileage, but by the time it has got to about 150K plus the maintenance can start to be fairly regular and could be expensive.

Anyway, good luck with your search, and remember that it is now very much a buyers market and you should be able to get a bargain - take your time to look around on the internet and see what is available at what price. Also be aware that there many sellers have not yet really accepted the reality of the current market and there are much more cars than normal at a relatively premium price, but on the whole these are not selling - bargain hard on any car that you are interested in buying and if the seller doesn't want to sell at a realistic price walk away as there will be plenty more out there!

Dave

 

[television]

What makes the 210 better is that it is higher geared giving more relaxed driving,, there are some good answers above

 

[njpumphrey]

Thanks guys. I agree that the E320 CDI engine I looked at last night was much quieter than mine. The veg oil thing appealed to me once and I ran a w123 diesel on it for a while, but I'm not sure I would be bothered to do it again. I don't do high miles so cost is not really an issue - hence why I am more tempted to go for a petrol engine. There was almost no rust on the 2001 E320 apart from a bit of bubbling under the front lip of the bonnet and some rust underneath at the back (the wheelarches were perfect and I thought they might have been replaced). The small LCD displays (temp and fuel?) were bust - is this a usual fault?). The only problem was the garage was asking £6k for it (84,000miles) and wouldn't budge under £5.5k. I'm going to look at a 1998 E320 petrol this afternoon at the same mileage for £3.3k. Any comments/suggestions?

Cheers,

Nick

 

[deejaybee]

Nick, only thing I would say is that £3300 is by no means cheap for the car you mention (i presume it is an E320 V6 petrol). If it is tip top condition with a comprehensive service history and doesn't need anything doing in the near future then ok (if you can knock a few hundred off). But if it needs servicing within a 1000m, or tyres or similar make sure you get this done or knock off the cost from what you are paying. Certainly negotiate for the failed instrument display.

As regards rust you also need to lift the door rubbers around all the doors on the top and the bottom - they can rust very badly here and some owners don't realise this. If you find the door rubber is stuck down onto the metal frame this could mean that a repair has already been done, in which case ask the owner for proof - if they don't know anything ask to pull up a length of the seal on top of the door as someone might have just done a bodge repair or simply stuck it down with mastic without fixing the rust. You also need to check the tailgate under the opening latch and the front wings in front of the wheel arch where it folds round to meet the bumper.

Also, at this age and mileage expect to have to replace the MAF if it hasn't been done already. It may still be ok, but these are now regarded as a service item within 100k miles. Cost will be about £160 from the likes of GSF. Other things to check are the bottom ball joints (will clunk when going over bumps, this can be done relatively cheaply as a DIY job but if you have it fixed at the garage it could easly cost £250-300), and any oil leaks at the front of the engine - not uncommon for gasket at base of oil filter housing to leak.

As a comparison just sold my 97 R E320 elegance, 7 seat model with leather interior and 98K for £1650 with 6 months MOT and 8 months tax - It needed about £400 spent to bring it up to V.good condition.

Dave

 

[stuartmac]

Hi Nick,

Having done exactly that in August last year, and not regretting the "upgrade" at all, you might be interested in the following:-

1. I had a few initial concerns about the W210's ride quality but either I've got used to it or they were only in my imagination.

2. I had the car inspected by the guy who'd looked after my W124, who's MB-trained but been independant for some years, and he pronounced the W210 nicely rust-free (he'd been telling me the W124 - a 1988 model - was getting very rusty at the rear).

3. After the W124, the W210's performance is absolutely awesome - real squeeze-you-into-seat stuff on kickdown. Yet, at 70-80 mph on a decent motorway run, it'll be doing 40mpg fairly quickly. Only downside here is, it isn't too hard to get poor fuel consumption using the car as a general runabout - e.g. on a 35-mile run over a mixture of single- and dual-carriageway, I can get near 40mpg while MissusMac gets nearer 30mpg - I can hear why but she get's narked if I tell her too often.

4. Whereas the W124 wouldn't tempt MissusMac out of her CR-V, I can't get her out of the the W210.

Finally, ours is a 2000; how much difference is Brown's new road tax going to be on a 2001? Also, have a look further down the Forum for my thread about (the possible pitfalls of) selling a W210 E320CDI.

Hth.

Regards,

 

[Jack the Lad]

I paid 6K for a 40,000 mile Yr 2000 W210 E320 Petrol saloon around Easter time. That was a pretty good price at the time. Prices should have dropped since then. Diesels were silly prices (£10K plus) even with silly mileages on them and even though I do 20,000 miles a year the payback period (7-8 years) was much too long for a car that might have a limited lifespan and no resale value. Mine does 27mpg in normal use, 35 on a motorway run and 29-30 average in the 12,000 miles I've done so far.

If you do get the petrol W210 the post 99 facelift model is reckoned to be a better car with the TIP gearbox and V6 engine. Don't forget if you go for Y reg or later you'll have a £500 annual VED bill.

The only other one I drove was a mint 97 E200 which couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding. You had to work so hard at making reasonable progress that it completely defeated the object of having a luxury car to waft effortlessly around in. 240s and 280s might be OK though and there's quite a few (2.6 litre) 240s about, although theres no real saving in fuel consumption.

I still look forward to every journey in my W210, which is my first Mercedes. The best toy is the little button that flips the rear headrests down. The most useful gadget is a toss up between cruise control and the button on the key fob that opens the boot lid. It's a fabulous car.

 

[SilverSaloon]

Some may say that going from a W124 to a W210 could be seen as a "downgrade" rather than an "upgrade"... ;-)

sure, its more modern, but the 210 comes no where close to the quality of a good 124.

 

[television]

Some may say that going from a W124 to a W210 could be seen as a "downgrade" rather than an "upgrade"... ;-)

sure, its more modern, but the 210 comes no where close to the quality of a good 124.

Does anything these days,,sure the 300TE that I had sticks in my mind as an all time great car, but technically things have moved on with some nicer features than the 124 had and little things like the short seat squab,, the 210 is better in this respect,,though at the end of the day you will not lose much money either way with prices down on the floor

 

[SilverSaloon]

Does anything these days,,sure the 300TE that I had sticks in my mind as an all time great car, but technically things have moved on with some nicer features than the 124 had and little things like the short seat squab,, the 210 is better in this respect,,though at the end of the day you will not lose much money either way with prices down on the floor

Dont get me wrong - i think a good 210 is a superb car.

I am sure the 210 does many things better than the 124 does (evolution and all that), but a 124 in good condition is a good match for a 210 anyday, aslong as you can live with the slightly 'older' feel.

To me, the rust issues were the killer. I had to decide between a 210 and 124 and chose the 124. Money was not an issue - I paid about the same for the 124 as i could have got a 210 for - it was the fact that the 124 just felt better made. I was also lucky it has good spec aswell though so can hold its own against a more modern 210 ;-)

 

[njpumphrey]

Thanks again. This is great advice – I wouldn’t have thought about looking under the seals round the doors.

The VED thing is a shocker – I thought that the difference was minor £210 compared with £185, but if it goes up more rapidly to over £400 it could be a big consideration – I don’t do many miles so tax is a big part of the running costs of a car for me. Just checked that the E320CDI diesel is band F = £210, but the E320 V6 is band G=£400, so if I get a big petrol it will have to be pre-2001.

Jack – I agree with you on the E200. I had a 200T in the past and wouldn’t touch (even a modern) 2L again.

Deejaybee - £1650 for your w210 – somebody got a great deal! You say you got it cheap in the first place but this price seems very low to me. It makes the garage asking £5500 for the 2001 E320CDI look pretty brazen in the current market. And did Jack pay over the odds for his E320 petrol saloon? The prices may have come down but there aren’t many as cheap ones as you are saying. Certainly I would expect to have to go and look at a lot of cheap ones to find one that is in fair condition. I haven’t been able to get out to look at the £3.3k E320 V6 today, but may get to look at a few over the weekend.

Stuartmac – I read about your trying to sell your car. I think fitting the extra seat would be the best option too, given the pitfalls. I also hear what you are saying about performance/economy, but for what I use the car for (Tescos and family trips) my E300 is fine. If I want performance I get on my motorbike! Rust isn’t an issue with my car either, but you are right that my wife far prefers the look of the w210. It is much prettier, and there is something in me that thinks it would be nicer to have a newer car.

So on balance I am looking for a post 1999 – pre 2001 E240-320 in great condition for £2-3k. Well, they might exist somewhere, but not anywhere near me at the moment. I don’t like travelling too far to see a well-priced car as there is often something wrong with it, so I think I might wait and see what crops up locally. It would also be sensible to find a buyer for the w124 E300 first, but where’s the fun in that?

 

[silverhorse]

At £2000 you might consider a 300 E turbo diesel around 98/99 model. They have a straight 6 engine but they are bombproof . I have a leather estate and there is hardly any rust. I do not know whwere you live but keep off any preowned coastal cars as the sea salt air does make a difference.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Hi, my sixpenneth for the record for what its worth.

I owned a 300TE for 12 years and the main recollections are:

Bodywork - Very solid car but not immune to rust, mine rusted around the rear windows and front wheelarches. This took a while to show due to the panel thickness. The quality of the solid white paint was average (metallic was probably a lot better). I frequently had to treat the edges of the sunroof for rust. Hydraulic rear suspension supply pipes that ran the length of the underbody were also prone to need replacing due to corrosion. Jacking points also prone to rust.
Conclusion - for a car designed in the early eighties I'd rate it 8/10

Interior - As TV says the seat base was short and diidn't provide enough support. The fabric seat covering circa 86-88 was of poor quality and wore badly on the base and bolsters. The seats offered very little laterral support although were well sprung. The quality of the rest of the interior was excellent although again the rear seat finishing around the headreat mounting points was poor.
Conclusion - 7/10

Controls and Instrumentation - Couldn't really fault this although cc switch rear wash/wipe and lighting switch prone to problems. The ergonomics re switches and controls were excellent and so much so that it has been carried through to the newer models.
Conclusion - 9/10

Engine and gearbox - 3 litre straight six an engineering marvel for the period although prone to head gasket failure and later wiring loom problems. Earlier models prone to distributor problems with condensation. The earlier four speed gearbox led to poor lower end performance although this was improved with the intro of the 24 valve and 3.2 upgrade later on. Ancillaries including radiator, water pump and power steering pump lasted no longer than average.
2 lt and 2.3 lt underpowered for all but light running.
Conclusion - 8/10

Brakes, suspension and exhaust - I never felt that the braking system would let me down in any situation, lightly or heavily laden. The suspension was too soft for my liking and the high ride height in standard trim made the car difficult to drive briskly on British A and B roads. The sportline was the probably the best set-up but very rare to find secondhand. The exhaust on the estate was prone to rot and needed replacement, especially the rear box which picked up stone damage from the rear wheels. (I replaced with complete s/s unit).
Conclusion - 7/10

Maintenance and relaibility - Dealers were on average just as bad then as now although the only redeeming factor was the overall simplicity of the car which allowed cheaper servicing and less guesswork by technicians.
Conclusion - 8/10

Total marks 47 out of 60

I have owned a 210 for 4 years now and here are my thoughts:

Bodywork - The problems with rust are well documented and have affected some peoples perceptions of the mark quite badly and quite rightly so. Knowing the areas that are affected helps me and others I'm sure keep the tinworm at bay. However I really like the design of the car and felt it was a major step on from the 124. The facelift provided MB with the opportunity to inprove an already good design.
Conclusion - 6/10

Interior - The quality of the interior is a delight especially in leather. The seats are better contoured and laterally supportive. Fractionally bigger payload space for the estate. Safety features including multiple airbags provide an enhanced level of safety.
Conclusion - 9/10

Controls and instrumentation - As 124, generally excellent, plus enhancements of folding mirrors etc.
Conclusion - 9/10

Engine and gearbox - The advent of the diesel CDi engines were a revelation and gained much praise. All the new generation of diesel engines including the earlier turbodiesel were well received and a much redeeming feature of the 210. The petrol engines were also generally well received and all but the 2 lt were adequately powered. Ancillaries are probably better made than 20 years ago as manufacturing techniques have improved therefore an enhanced lifespan can be expected. The tiptronic gearbox is a delight. The CDi engines are very strong with few problems other injector erosion.
Conclusion - 8/10

Brakes, suspension and exhaust - As 124 for robustness and comfort. The intro of the classic, elegance and avantgarde provided more choice and better handling generally. Exhaust systems seem better made and appear to last longer especially on the diesels.
Conclusion - 8/10

Maintenance and reliability - Much more complex than the 124 but not as complex as the 211. Dealers take advantage of this and for most owners identifying a good independant is essential. Electrical problems can be expensive ie, EIS etc.
Conclusion - 7/10

Total marks 47 out of 60

Well who would have thought a draw!

 

[stuartmac]

Hi Nick,

I am looking for a post 1999 – pre 2001 E240-320 in great condition for £2-3k.

The W210 300 Turbodiesel idea is worth considering also, imho. We nearly got a '97 R one two years ago - paid for it and got it home before doing a full HPI on it, to find that it'd done more like 300k rather than the 150k showing on the odometer!

But, apart from the clocking, it was an absolutely cracking car in every way - you could not tell it'd done 300k. In fact, when we bought the E320CDI, I would've preferred a 300 Turbodiesel as they were supposedly going for £2k less - trouble was actually finding one for sale ...

Hth.

Regards,

 

[mattsurf]

I think that if you are looking at petrol, I would consider a pre 2001 E430 (lower VED), I don't think that they are significantly worse on fuel than the 320.

However, I would really consider an E320CDI it is a great engine - I regularly get more than 40mpg from my estate.

The price that you are talking about is double what you should be paying at the moment - I estimate that a good E320CDI with less than 100k miles is worth £3 - £3.5k, for an E430 / E320 I would not expect to pay more than £3k for a really good car

 

[Myros]

on the ved thing

pre 1/3/01 and you are quids in. Having had both 300TE 124and 320cdi 210, I have to say I miss the 124, as it was softer on the ride, whereas the mem's 210 being an avantgarde can knock everything around into a cocked hat if you put your foot down. I swear its faster than the SL if we really goose it, and that can pick its feet up.

The 124 had much more of a take it apart and put it back togetherness to it. My few attempts with the 210 have not always been as lucky, but I'm hoping I won't need to as much with this much more modern car.

I can't say don't get one. We've done 24 k in the last year with very little trouble, and trouble easily enough fixed, although at a price.

 

[njpumphrey]

There have been some really great replies to this query. I am getting the impression that I shouldn't be hasty to "upgrade" to a newer car unless the price is really right. The w124 I have at the minute is a great car and there seems to be no point in me selling it if I have to spend over the odds to replace it, so I will take my time to wait for the right car at the right price to come along. The choice of cars available to me at the minute appear to be overpriced by what is being said to me here, and also they would have to be in tip-top condition to beat my current car. Not that my car is in mint condition, but it has the advantage of being cheaper to maintain than a newer model since I can do much of the maintenance myself. I like to be in a position where I feel that I can tackle any running repairs and minor servicing myself and not be forced to take it to a garage the minute a warning light appears. I also know my current car is up to date with servicing and has good tyres, exhaust, etc, and I am familiar with all it's foibles (the temp/fuel gauge over-read by 1/4 and the glow-plug relay is temperamental). Getting a replacement car always carries a risk of inheriting a new set of problems.

And over half the new cars are silver, which is such a dull colour. Now maybe I am being too picky and will never find a car to replace mine. Perhaps I am destined to be a w124 owner for many years to come?...