190e coolant idle

[johntom]

Hi
i 've just taken my 190e auto (only 69k) out today after not being run for a while. After 25 miles on the motorway I lifted the bonet to find a puddle of water from the expansion tank overflow, also the idle is quite erratic and there is a squeaking / rubbing noise from the pulley area ? Could the idle and water probs be connected ie head gasket, or perhaps water pump breaking up? Any ideas out there? Thanks John
(ps i topped the water level up before driving, the level as now fallen below the expansion tank line)
There doesn't seem to be any sign of oil in the coolant or water in the oil, however the warm oil presure at idle is only about 1.5 (3 under load).

 

[television]

If the head gaskit is leaking from piston to water, this will blow up the water system, the effect is like boiling. the oil presure looks around normal.

Malcolm

 

[johntom]

Thanks for the reply
if I compression test the engine to determine if there is a difference between cylinders, what compression should there be in a good 2.0e with 70k?
Also should it be tested hot or cold?
If the water pump has failed (noise from the pulley area) would that cause water to come from the expansion tank - may rad. need flushing etc?
thanks for your help.

 

[Stevie A]

Sounds like either the water pump is deffective - so that would cause the system to boil over. Or the drive belt is loose so causing squeeking, but then the other gadgets on belt would not work properly in theory.

Fire it up and have a good listen at pump if it sounds rough it's probably caput and not pumping water round the system so not getting cooled through rad and so boiling. Could be thermostat in top of pump that has seized shut but squeek sounds like pump itself.

 

[johntom]

is the water pump behind the fan (top pulley) and is it difficult to change?
thanks again

 

[tom7035]

As the car has been idle for a while, I'd slip the belt off and check by hand all the pulleys are turning freely and smoothly. Very unlikely IMO that the pump isn't pumping sufficently provided its turning OK. When a water pump gives up the ghost it isn't the pumping action which gives up, it's usually the bearing, then the seal starts leaking coolant. I'm sure your alternator also has a 'freewheeling' clutch mechanism and when this seizes-up causes the drivebelt to slip at idling speeds.
As for stuck thermostat, a possibility, but you'd have noticed your temp gauge reading high. (I hope!)
This is where I would begin anyway.

 

[Stevie A]

As for stuck thermostat, a possibility, but you'd have noticed your temp gauge reading high. (I hope!)
This is where I would begin anyway.

I thought that too Tom about the temp gauge and agree with everything else you mentioned about checking the pulleys. If the car was laid up for a while probably something has stuck. If the drive belt itself was squeeking then maybe it wasn't turning the pump correctly? But again the other components on that belt wouldn't work correctly. Is the alternator on the same belt on this car?

A jammed thermostat would still cause the boiling over.

John - start car and watch and listen carefully to what is happening. Run it til the temp gauge starts warming right up and see if it goes into the red. Then gives us a more feedback on exact noise and where it is coming from eg belt, coolant pump etc.

 

[johntom]

I have run the car for about 15 miles then stopped it and left it running (signs of water having come from expansion tank). The temp. was rising very,very slowly when parked but didn't get near to the red in several minutes. The rubbing/squeeking noise isn't there all the time but when listening at idle, it seems to come from the top pulley (water pump area). The tickover is erratic and the engine doesn't run smoothly at tickover, (at one point I thought it was going to cut out), however seems to rev well and drives ok on the motorway. I think I may take it for pressure testing to determine the state of the head gasket?
Also forgot to mention it doesn't seem to start straight away anymore?
thanks John

 

[Stevie A]

John - it must have boiled over for a reason before. You will have to figure out reason. I still have a feeling thermostat was stuck but it should have boiled over again and went into the red. Are you sure water came out expansion tank? If water pump worn / faulty water leaks out a small hole on bottom of pump. Noise might be worn pump.

Old spark plugs, particularly when these cars have been left sitting for ages, can be a simple cause of poor starting, Along with a worn distributor and rotor arm. It could also be the familiar fault of the OVP which causes erratic
idle / poor running / hard starting, but usually accompanied by the ABS light coming on too.

Be sure to report back once it's been checked at a garage.

 

[Biff]

Had a Citroen and all the symptons as above were the same apart formmy car overheated - stuck thermostat. Water from Expamsion tank was due to build of of back pressure, also when car just started depite water level at correct level it would go below the line then blow back as temp got higher.

 

[Blobcat]

I have run the car for about 15 miles then stopped it and left it running (signs of water having come from expansion tank). The temp. was rising very,very slowly when parked but didn't get near to the red in several minutes. The rubbing/squeeking noise isn't there all the time but when listening at idle, it seems to come from the top pulley (water pump area). The tickover is erratic and the engine doesn't run smoothly at tickover, (at one point I thought it was going to cut out), however seems to rev well and drives ok on the motorway. I think I may take it for pressure testing to determine the state of the head gasket?
Also forgot to mention it doesn't seem to start straight away anymore?
thanks John

Sounds like your water pump

 

[johntom]

Hi
I took it to a garage today and they concluded that the head gasket had gone and also the water pump (water leak seen + noise) not good news !.
They thought the head gasket was leaking to the water jacket, with coolant the likely cause of the missfire and that they could smell combustion gas in the expansion tank?

re poor starting Plugs, leads, dist cap and rotor were all new

thanks again everyone, I may get a second opinion tomorrow before deciding what to do.