1997 C180 Sport auto stuck in 3rd!!

[Frustrated]

With no signs/noises/warnings suddenly the car has defaulted to 3rd gear. Initially, switching off & on again cleared it. Diagnostics gave ?Fault 147 Sporadically Gear implausible or transmission slipping? (147 = Valve 2 in electric valve body plate). MB replaced the Electric Plate and changed the ATF, it failed within 200 yards, so they replaced the plate & ATF a second time and it ran OK for two days, but the problem is now back. Switch on, goes up the gears smoothly till it gets into 3rd, then is stuck there and stays there ? stop the car & it pulls away in 3rd. Switch off again & it starts in 1st, goes up to 3rd and is stuck there again. MB seem to have no idea why. Would appreciate any ideas on what to do next.

 

[LNM]

I had a Volvo 940 that refused to go into 4th. There was a solenoid that inhibited the box from shifting into 4th if you were towing or in hilly terrain.

I found a _tiny_ piece of metal obstructing the solienoid's path and once removed all was well. And no more 15mpg rubbish either.

I don't know how many speeds your auto box has, nor do I know of there's any ability to override top gear (if indeed the top one is fourth, which it may not be) nor have I any idea where such a device would be on your car, but careful investigation of owners manual to check is worth 5 minutes to see.

(As an example; I recently found out that if I'd read mine I would know how to dim the dashboard lights...)

I doubt MB will be able to resolve this without fitting a new box.

And a new ECU.

And a new set of plugs.

And a new air filter.

And emptying the ashtray.

Sorry, I've gone too far this time.

 

[Frustrated]

No, not too far at all!!

It's a five speed box, and even MB guys say how smooth it is when it is running properly (which it was for four days in the middle of February).

Here's an update on progress. They have still not fixed it.

They have tried:
New electric plate
New bit above that (with the valve thingies)
New air box
New rear axle speed sensor for ABS
New gearbox management unit
Gearbox out, stripped and back in again TWICE
New other things they daren't even tell me about (probably including new ashtray, new door handles and new left headlamp bulb - main beam, of course)

Now they are taking it to a transmission specialist to see if they can spot the problem. Only taken since 4th February to be no nearer a solution. If anyone has and advice short of calling in a spirit medium, I'd appreciate it so I can pass it on.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. No wonder I called myself frustrated.

Is there an up-side to all this. Well, YES. They have given me a Smart Roadster for the last couple of weeks, and oh boy, IS IT FUN!!!!! I would never have believed it.

 

[OlafMaxwell]

If you end up replacing the box and electronics you should not end up paying for all the trial and error work. They are supposed to know how to fix a problem and experimenting is not the way to go. I just hope it does not end up costing you a fortune. There are some good auto specialists around and as you will read on this site the MB dealers are not always the mist knowledgable.

 

[Frustrated]

I agree

They had better not try to charge me anything!! I've already paid them £350 for the first electric plate, so as far as I'm concerned, I've paid them to fix it already. All they have to do now is to keep their side of the deal, but I'm not taking bets on which side of Christmas that will be!!

 

[Frustrated]

Hopeful end to the saga

Next stage of the saga was to put a new gearbox in. Now, bear in mind that I have always maintained it was NOT a gearbox issue, I was reluctant to give approval but there was no other option.

MB Truro got a new one shipped from Germany, fitted it, and tried the car. The problem was still there. They put the old one back and for whatever reason the problem has finally gone away. No idea what it was, but replacing the gearbox then putting the old one back in did the trick.

It has been running since the middle of last week without a problem and they delivered it back to me yesterday. So far, still OK.

FULL MARKS to MB of Truro for staying with it. FULL MARKS to Leon, their MB mechanic/technician of 19 years standing, for his determination. FULL MARKS to them for NOT charging me for any of the work other than the original (unsuccesful) attempt to fix it (new electric plate). FULL MARKS for also giving the car an MOT (expired while in the garage) and NOT charging me for that either. The excellent service given - the Smart Roadster as a loan car for the duration was SO much fun - has increased my faith in the MB infrastructure in the UK.

 

[OlafMaxwell]

A good point in marketing and something MB should listen to. At least they worked on sorting it out, hopefully it is and will stay ok.....a pity they are not all like MB in Truro.....brings back happy memories of some time in Cornwall for the eclipse in 99....I must admit its not a problem with a car that would frustrate me, it's more the frustration of trying to get the delaer ot sort it out properly. As far as I am concerned he can take what time is needed as long as the job gets done. I bet you would buy from them again. I would.

 

[Frustrated]

The next episode

Hmmmmmmmmm. This morning was not good. Drove into St Austell, which is about six miles from home. Stopped a couple of times. Guess what. On the way home, it 'defaulted' again. From start, 1st, 2nd, 3rd - stuck there. Stop, switch off, start again, 1st, 2nd, 3rd - stuck there. Stop but leaving engine running, start off again, already in third and stuck there.

Rang Leon at MB Truro. Poor guy. After all the effort he has already put in, to get another phone call from me must have been a nightmare. Instant response - we'll come and collect it, leave you with wheels while we take another look. Got the Roadster back again now a couple of hours later.

OK - my view to date:
1: Why can't Mercedes support the dealership more by providing greater details and participation about the options available to try to fix what is now a three month problem with one of their cars?
2: MB Truro have been exceptional and refreshing in the way they have dealt with this problem. They have kept me informed, kept me mobile, and been honest throughout. I am delighted and surprised (pleasantly so) by their determination to resolve this problem. Yes, Olaf, I'd definitely put as much business their way. This is Customer Service at it's finest, and deserves being broadcast loudly. Thank you, MB of Truro.
3: Surely, I'm not unique!! Somebody else, somewhere, must surely have had the same problem and resolved it. If they could let me know how it was resolved, I'd pass the message to Leon and this MB mechanic/technician of nearly 20 years standing would again be able to sleep at night.

Your continuing thoughts would be very welcome, no matter how bizarre. Just finding the ECU re-set button would help, lol.

 

[jonathanjhann]

Have they tried an air mass sensor? if the engine load and air consumption cannot be determined the gear box will go into limp home mode, which is 3rd gear?

 

[Frustrated]

Further update on a 4 month plus problem.

Hi all.

Another "latest news" bulletin.

Yes, they have tried an Air Mass Sensor, but another dead end, I'm afraid. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

They had hoped it was fixed a couple of weeks ago when a mechanic replaced the wiring between the gearbox and the EMU using a bit of an old loom he had in his toolbox, but it failed again after a couple of days. Last week, they got another of their customers to provide a "donor car" to compare diagnostics and settings. The hope was this would highlight read-out discrepancies which they may then try to balance. Work was scheduled for last Friday and I've still heard nothing so I must assume they were not successful.

Synopsis currently reads "Initial default to 3rd gear on 25th January. First visit to MB Truro 4th February. Been delivered back 'hopefully fixed' twice, but now been back in the garage for a couple of weeks again. I must stress how excellent MB Truro have been, their determination to resolve this issue is still highly focused. Full marks to them for exemplary customer service, and special thanks to Leon there. My current thought is that as the car was designed to go into default under whatever set of circumstances has happened or it has gone into default of it's own accord, perhaps MB UK should now just provide me with a complete replacement car and sent this one back to Stuttgart for research and training purposes."

Frustrated of Cornwall was a good handle, don't you think??

 

[Frustrated]

Still not fixed

Another bulletin:
Still defaulting into third. New wiring loom, as suggested by MB Milton Keynes and their Complaint Manager, Ken, had the car working for two days, but then it went back into 2005 normal mode. Latest is that Ken is in contact with Stuttgart and they have asked for the number of teeth in the pinion and crown wheel in the rear axle to be counted!! MB Truro took the car in last Friday and duly counted while I loitered in their showroom drinking their coffee for three hours. I've spoken with Ken since saying I need action asap. Now a week later. Guess what. No action.

 

[LAMAR]

If its had a gearbox, gearbox ecu and wiring harness there is nothing else to change in the gearbox side of the transmission except the diff. This could cause a problem if the wrong one has been fitted with the wrong ratio, Has the diff been replaced? I would not have thought so. So that only leaves the
Selecter module Incorporating the gear regonition, but this is regonition for P,R,N,D not unless the tipshift is playing up. OR ITS NOT GEARBOX RELATED THE CAR IS GOING INTO LIMP HOME MODE BECAUSE OF ANOTHER FAULT AND IS HOLDING 3ARD GEAR AS A DEFAULT. :!: :!: :!: :!:

 

[LAMAR]

The dealer needs to examine the results from a full short test are there any faults in the engine,esp,abs, can data bus etc,etc

 

[Frustrated]

Spot on, Lamar. With new gearbox tried, new wiring loom, careful (cough) checks of all earth leads, new hoses, air box, electric plate etc., etc., etc. it is NOT the gearbox. I've owned the car for two years before the fault developed in January and have not changed the diff or anything in the area, so it is also not that as far as I'm concerned. I've been telling them all along it is a Management Unit, wiring or earth lead problem and I still think along those lines. Perhaps they have not checked the earth leads thoroughly enough, or maybe when they swapped the Control Unit, the car failed to recognise it (they are now car-specific). MB have declined the suggestion of fitting a new one to try it as if this was not the problem, the new unit would then not be useable on another car. If it is not fixed soon, I'm going for maximum publicity on this one as I'm getting very, very fed up with it. Still give full marks to the dealership, who have been very determined throughout, but very few marks earned by MB (Daimler Chrysler UK and Germany) as they have failed to apply any urgency to the problem and have so far made an unacceptably low level of commitment. After the half day in the garage last Friday, I spoke to Ken, their Complaints manager on Monday and asked for action / feedback by Wednesday / Thursday. Today, Friday, not a word. I'm about to ring his again this afternoon. :x

 

[dogsbody]

You have all the Classic symptoms of an intermittent fault which is inducing a "fault" with the engine management system. My E320 recently suffered a brake light switch failure, which switched off ABS, ECD and Cruise control, because the brake lights were not working! (You have to ask what idiot designed the software which switches off two safety systems because a brake light is not working)
I had once a similar problem with a Ford Granada, where everything was changed but the system would not work - in this case the engine.
After much huffing and puffing it was found to be a corroded plug, and a terminal within which was high resistance, and was found with a voltmeter and a lot of sweat. I rather suspect that you have a similar problem, and further suspect that some laterial thinking needs to be applied on the basis
that - why would teh car select third gear? Are there builtin software standards (like get you home) which are being invoked and if so why?

In fairness to your dealership they have done all the good thinks like plug replacing and suspect part in the gearbox part of the system, but the fault could be induced by a fault in the engine system which is causing the ECU to flag a fault and select "get you home mode"

What needs to happen now is that MB UK need to talk to Stuttgart, who need to talk to the software engineer who needs to talk through his logic with regard to the engine and gearbox software, to at least find what is going on.
Better I would have expected MB to have fitted by now an in line monitor to understand what is going on both ECU and Gearbox ECU wise, so at least the fault can be put down to a particular circuit.
One of the reasons I loved my W124 E 250, because it was so dumb, that electrical faults were limited to a fuse blowing!

 

[big x]

This may sound silly but have you tried changing the main battery?
I've had strange electrical problems that disappeared after putting a new battery in.
I assume the the voltage code switch in the shift module has been replaced and that you have not spilled liquid onto the shift mechanism and that there is no slop in the shift lever due to a missing bush ?
If the fault develops only when hot perhaps the sensor that measures the gearoil temperature or ambient temperature is at fault.


adam