3 months to deliver a spare part, you've got to be kidding?

AFAIRSHAKE

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Does B Class mean B Class service?
YOU DECIDE !!!

Please help me out and tell me what you think a B Class (no pun intended) “Good Will Gesture” should be

I have a B Class auto (B180 CDI SE CVT) on a 58 plate with 33000 miles on the clock and the CVT starts to play up.
OK I have a warranty on the car so no problem there, until the new CVT unit is ordered off Mercedes who take the order but don’t mention that the part may take a little time to arrive. After a while I decide to push a bit on a delivery date and I’m informed that the delivery time will be three months due to a bottle neck. I let Mercedes know that I felt so long a delay was unreasonable, I badgered Customer Care who didn’t care and Car Codes to push the thing along, all to no avail . They did place the order on the high priority list which sounded nice but didn’t alter the delivery date one day.

As the car was being fixed under a non Mercedes warranty I was not offered a courtesy car but I was informed that even if the repair was being done at a Mercedes garage a courtesy car would only be offered for a maximum of 2 weeks. The warranty I do have also does not cover me for a courtesy car for the time spent waiting for a manufacture to deliver parts, though they were excellent in all other respects of the £4000 + repair.

So I ended up having to get a run around which with tax and insurance cost £650 and I suffer three months depreciation cost on the time I didn’t have my car, which I reckon is about £300.

Now Mercedes have offered me a GOOD WILL gesture for all the trouble and inconvenience of owning one of their cars that can’t be fixed for 3 months. I will not let you in know yet what that good will gesture is, BECAUSE I would like you to tell me what you would expect Mercedes to offer you if you found yourself in my position.

I promise to take an average of your suggestions to Mercedes Customer Care with an explanation of how I arrived at such a figure and I promise to post their reply here


Of course you may feel that a packet of aspirins and a hang up smelly to cure the 3 month mustiness of its garage stay is quite enough Good Will and if so I promise to abide by your ruling.

YOU DECIDE !!!
 

L John

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what you would expect Mercedes to offer you if you found yourself in my position.

Not a lot.

Your warranty wasn't with Mercedes so your only complaint is how long the parts took to arrive.
3 months is bad and not informing you without being pushed is poor.

Anything is likely to be by way of an apology for inconvenience and not meant to be taken as a compensation.
Money could be taken as admission of guilt and would let you get your foot in the door for a legal battle.

A free service, an offer of a small additional discount if you buy from a main dealer or a bunch of flowers is my guess.

If you had bought from Mercedes and had that three month wait, you would have a much stronger complaint and a courtesy car for two weeks.
Maybe that's why you were at the back of the queue as they were supplying their own customers first?
 

Goliath

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I'm here waiting for some parts to arrive from america thinking they are taking ages to arrive, but I only ordered them mid last week and they are due to arrive in the next couple of days!

As above I wouldn't expect them to offer much but a bit more then a bunch of flowers. £100 max is my bet
 

L John

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I went a bit high and wide with free service tops, to bunch of flowers at the low end.

My thinking is a service isn't cheap but it doesn't cost them much to do it, they're more likely offer 50% off though.

Goliath, is money likely?
A company I worked for a long time ago sent a flowers from Interflora as a 'good will gesture' when someone injured their leg on the company steps.
The boss said we absolutely must not give so much as a penny to go towards the cost of a band aid, as any cash amount could be seen as accepting guilt and could end up with a big compensation claim.

This is not the same thing but I can't see them giving money for inconvenience.
As far as I'm aware (could be wrong), taking something off the bill before it's paid, is not the same as giving a cash amount back after the transaction is completed.
The end result is the same but one is discount for inconvenience, the other is a pay out.
 
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Goliath

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I see your point, and agree it could be a possibility that they would avoid giving a cash gift for those reasons.

Looking from the other point of view though, depending on how much fuss has been made and whether or not they themselves think the delay is unacceptable or not, they might give cash as a means to 'shut the customer up' and get rid of the problem. Most people tend to see cash as a way to get rid of a problem, like when a landlord has a tenant who won't pay rent or move out, if they offer to 'pay' them a couple of hundred quid to move out they normally take it, thus saving the landlord a 3 month battle through court to evict the tenant.

Also in terms of liability, if they play their cards right they could write an agreement that the money is full and final settlement for injury/distress etc, thus avoiding the possibility of a court case.

I don't have any experience of getting any good will gesture from a dealer (as I don't use them!), but my first thought was probably a good will sum, or refund, of around £100. I could well be wrong though, I'd be interested to hear what the OP has been offered.
 

aycee

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Not just MB having supply problems. A pal of mine had a BMW X3 (only 8 months old) which needed a new suspension link. They had it for over 3 months and gave hime a bog standard 1 series to drive. Refused to give him anything better, said he was lucky to have a loan car at all for such a long time. He had to change travel plans twice as BMW would not let him take the car abroad. Said he was looking at changing to an X5 if they could do a deal. They didn't seem in the slightest bit interested. There was no hint of goodwill so he went and bought an Audi SQ5 before the BMW was even fixed. Audi were happy to wait for the car and gave him a part ex price without even seeing it.
Good luck.
 

Andy.M

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7 year old car, non Mercedes warranty, presuming the car was purchased and servicing from non MB garage then I'd say you'll get nothing but a free carwash if you get it serviced by MB next time.
 

KennyN

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I think it is a bit cheeky to expect anything on a seven year old car, it isn`t MB`s fault the GB needs replacing and the fact that they are not doing the work makes it more of a longshot to expect a "goodwill" contribution.

Did the car have a FULL comprehensive main dealer history , if it did then you may have an outside chance of something but if not then why should they offer anything ?

Kenny
 

L John

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grober

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Unfortunately Mercedes abandoned CVT gearboxes in the later B class models meaning the technology is essentially obselete with newer models using the twin clutch auto gearbox. I think current European consumer law obliges manufacturers to supply parts for 10 years after production ceases. Mercedes has in the past been better than many manufacturers in this respect but in many cases their parts are supplied as reconditioned rather than newly manufactured. In addition Mercedes assemble cars rather manufacture them. This means they are dependent on whoever manufacturers the CVT gearbox -- I believe ZF in this case. I imagine ZF will remanufacture on a batch rather than individual basis with Mercedes ordering maybe 1000+ at a time??
 
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AFAIRSHAKE

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Many thanks everyone for the quick reply’s and the surprisingly accurate guesses as to what Mercedes position and offer was likely to be. In fact their offer was £100 off my next service which I am sure was a lot to do with not admitting any liability.

I would like to correct a few misconceptions though.
I know my car is getting on a bit and although very well serviced and maintained, it only gets valeted when I open two doors when the wind is blowing and washed when it rains. I bought the car as Mercedes have a solid dependable reputation and a heritage of a quality car manufacturer, but would be wrong if, as some of you feel that you would get better treated if the car was newer or the warranty was a main dealer. I was told that in any circumstance of age or warranty or car purchase the situation would be the same apart from the offer of a couple of weeks of a courtesy car.

Under the present rules as LJohn states is that the manufacture must keep the part in production and supply them in a reasonable time, the rub is what is a REASONABLE time. To possible push this to the limit you could have a 3 months old car that a part fails on, no problem you say these things happen so MB says sure we will fix it we have ordered the part and it will be hear a year next Tuesday, and their stance is that that is a perfectly reasonable time to wait and would you like a magazine to read while you wait. Admittedly that is less likely on a new car as you would think the parts are readily available but as aycee’s friend with his BMW found, its not guarantees.
I know it such a situation you’d say a small claim court would take a dim view of the manufacturer but in my case I would have to go for the point of sale then through the warranty firm and the garage that fits the CVT, all of whom have been great and done all that is necessary, so I don’t feel they have any responsibility for the 3 month delay.

I feel sure andyM that if the motor broke on your panoramic roof while it was open and MB said no problem it will be here in 3 month you would not be pleased.

In general I believe that MB are excellent on parts delivery time, aiming at 7 days max even if the part has to be shipped in. So I feel it would not be a bad idea if they had a flat rate daily inconvenience gesture of say £5 per day after the first 10 days, when they fall so far from their stated aims of service. Just my own thoughts but I can’t think it would cost them that much if as they say that very few parts are backlisted

And thanks grober for the likely reason why it took so long for the part to arrive, you are far more knowledgeable than anyone I talked to in MB customer care who could’nt give my any reasons for the delay

And good luck to Goliath I hope you have better luck than I had.
 

L John

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In fairness, your post asked...
Please help me out and tell me what you think a B Class (no pun intended) “Good Will Gesture” should be

We answered what we expected they would offer.
I don't think anyone finding them-self in your position would think any of the posted suggestions would be fair, or what they "should be", due to your inconvenience and additional costs down to the excessive wait.

Given the prices of Mercedes, I think they should do more to ensure customers remain loyal when things like this occur.
Truth is, you are likely to get at least the same or better offer with much cheaper brands.
 

KennyN

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Maybe i am missing something here :confused:

You bought a seven year old car (without a genuine S/H) that now has an issue with the gearbox , your warranty company deemed it in need of replacement so they ordered one from the dealer which entails a 12 week wait. You are not happy with that and think the company should reimburse you financially because they don`t have one on the shelf. :confused:

I am sure it is their interest, as a business, to take the money and supply the part and the "bottleneck" is costing them money also so the delay may be genuinely unavoidable.

One thing i do struggle with is that vehicle owners that , once the car is out of the three year warranty, think that the manufacturer is still in some way responsible for repairing their vehicle ,unless it is a safety issue or a known manufacturing defect. After the warranty expires and if the vehicle is still being serviced by the dealer then there maybe an outside chance of a "goodwill" contribution (in certain conditions) but in no way would i say it should be compulsory,why should they as it is a business after all - or am i missing something ?


Kenny
 
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grober

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Apparently the gearbox is a CF23 CVT transmission made by ZF. A variation was also used in the Ford focus 1.6 C max and certain Audis where it also gave trouble. Sometimes its a problem with the valve body rather than the main box components and can be repaired by certain auto transmission specialists. If this was the case you might have had a faster resolution by going outside the Mercedes network in this instance.
 
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AFAIRSHAKE

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Mnay thanks LJohn you echo my thoughts exactly, MB have a reputation of excellent service generally and to there credit most of the staff outside the Customer Care service were amazed at the time it was going to take to obtain the part, especially as no one in the supply line had hinted at such a delay until I pressed for a date. I wouldn’t have followed that up if I had’nt consulted a special Mercedes CVT garage based in Manchester who warned me there was likely to be a several month wait for a CVT which in his experience was the norm.
Its just a shame there is not some remedy in place to at least acknowledge their failing their own delivery objectives.

KennyN, I think you are slightly missing the point, although the car is 7 years old I bought when it was 5 year old with only 15000miles on the clock and it has always had a full MB service history. Unfortunately the gear box went which at 33000 miles it not I think anything to brag about. Still these thing happen and luckily I had an excellent warranty at reasonable money supplied from the major car dealership I bought it from in Cheshire, which has been fulfilled all it obligation without flaw or delay. The only thing I am annoyed about is the length of time it has taken for MB to supply the part. I am not asking MB for anything but to deliver a part in a reasonable time, the part was paid for by the warranty company as was the rest of the repair.
To put it simply if you bought a brand new MB tomorrow and it broke on the way home you would be covered be the MB warranty, BUT if the part that the car needed was made (for arguments sake) in Nepal where an earthquake has just destroyed the factory MB would say we will get the part in a REASONABLE time which as far as I can see could be anything from 3 month (in my experience) to 3 years for all I know and you would get nothing for that lost time but £100 for you inconvenience and depreciation on the value of your car which you cant use. Admitted the delay may be unavoidable but that would not be your fault and it shouldn’t cost you money. I would suspect that this sort of bottleneck is a rare thing, so it would be nice if a quality company did’nt leave their valued customers insuch circumstance high and dry, in other words it would nice if the gave the “a fair shake”

Many thanks again Grober, if I had read up a bit more here before I bought (totally my fault) I might have realized that the CVT boxes are a bit suspect. Still I must thank the posters on other threads here for alerting me that the slight miss between 30-40mph was in fact early signs of a failing CVT.
 

L John

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One thing i do struggle with is that vehicle owners that , once the car is out of the three year warranty, think that the manufacturer is still in some way responsible for repairing their vehicle ,unless it is a safety issue or a known manufacturing defect. After the warranty expires and if the vehicle is still being serviced by the dealer then there maybe an outside chance of a "goodwill" contribution (in certain conditions) but in no way would i say it should be compulsory,why should they as it is a business after all - or am i missing something ?


Kenny

He wasn't wanting them to repair his vehicle, just to supply the part.
Out of warranty doesn't mean they can leave you high and dry, they have a legal obligation both to supply parts and to supply them in a reasonable time.

You're a very easy going customer if you think 3 months is an acceptable time to get a part for your car. I think it would be unacceptable for a washing machine, let alone a car!

What if the part arrived after 3 months and it turns out another part is needed to complete the job.
I guess you would just say, that's fine mate, it's out of the manufacturers warranty, just give me a call when it's ready?
 

KennyN

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He wasn't wanting them to repair his vehicle, just to supply the part - I never said he did , it was just an general observation based on various threads on this and other forums.

Out of warranty doesn't mean they can leave you high and dry, they have a legal obligation both to supply parts and to supply them in a reasonable time. - Obviously the gearbox is NOT available at present , so on a serious note - what does the OP expect the manufacturer to do ???

You're a very easy going customer if you think 3 months is an acceptable time to get a part for your car.- Not at all , three months is unaceptable BUT what can be done if a third party supplier to the manufacturer does NOT have the part ???

What if the part arrived after 3 months and it turns out another part is needed to complete the job.(then that is a different case all together as it would then be the responsibility of the persons carrying out the work to offer a solution)- I guess you would just say, that's fine mate, it's out of the manufacturers warranty, just give me a call when it's ready? - No , i wouldn`t but once i realised that nothing could be done within a reasonable timescale i would consider a couple of different (realistic) options

Some of our machines (also German) in work have a 6 month lead time for parts , how you are supposed to know something is going to need replaced so far down the line i dont know but it is too expensive for the manufacturer to get the parts made and keep them on the shelf ,just incase they are required by a customer.

My first Saab , a 900 Sensonic , had a manual conversion carried out by the main dealer as the Sensonic box was too problematic.

Kenny
 
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AFAIRSHAKE

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Well KennyN, I can only say you are far more forgiving than me, I however don’t feel as though I should lose out when my only offence is having the bad luck to require a part that is bottlenecked. I am glad to say that both the industry rules and MB own delivery objective seem to indicate they see the importance of being able to access spare parts for cars quickly and efficiently.
The problem comes when you are unluckily enough to require a part that they don’t have, when it seems they cast they’re self professed good intentions out the window and leave you swinging for as long as it take to fix the problem, regardless of how long that takes.

I doubt I will get anymore out of them but I will come back and let you know if MB finally show some fairness in dealing with the poor sods who end up in my position.
 

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Well KennyN, I can only say you are far more forgiving than me, I however don’t feel as though I should lose out when my only offence is having the bad luck to require a part that is bottlenecked. I am glad to say that both the industry rules and MB own delivery objective seem to indicate they see the importance of being able to access spare parts for cars quickly and efficiently.
The problem comes when you are unluckily enough to require a part that they don’t have, when it seems they cast they’re self professed good intentions out the window and leave you swinging for as long as it take to fix the problem, regardless of how long that takes.

I doubt I will get anymore out of them but I will come back and let you know if MB finally show some fairness in dealing with the poor sods who end up in my position.

It is a rotten position to be in, its not good at all to leave a car 3 month and not used at all, that is from mercedes own words.
 
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AFAIRSHAKE

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Many thank Television, its nice to know I would not be alone in feeling angry in the same circumstances.
I presume you mean that MB have said somewhere or other that it is not good for a car not to be not started or left standing for 3 months, which leads us onto another off thread post which might be of interest to some out there.

When my car went into the garage it did not show any fault lights at all, but when they finally got the CVT and put it all together again fault light came up for allsorts. Eventually as there wasn’t anything wrong with components indicated and as the fault codes kept coming up even after they had been reset they decided to replace the ECU which cured everything. I can only suppose my car is a bit like me as I would feel a bit ill used if I was made to sit about for 3 months with my undercarriage hanging out in all weathers

Back on the thread topic.
The ECU replacement and reassemble took about a week which goes to show what MBs usual efficiency when all goes well. I still haven’t heard back from MBs Customer Care but will update when I do.
 

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