814D Vario Brake Problems in France Need Help!!!

[peter814d]

814D VARIO BRAKE PROBLEMS IN FRANCE NEED HELP!!!!!!!

Hi, my name is Peter. This is my first time on this forum. I have a small Mercedes truck; it’s a UK registered 814D Vario year 2000 with full air brakes and disks all round. It’s a great little truck; compact but with a good load capacity.

However, I need some help. I live in France and use the truck once a month to go to the UK for stock. Some time ago the truck broke down in France. The diagnosis by our local Mercedes dealer was rear brake seizure on the near side. After two UK trips I had the same problem again. Exactly the same symptoms on the same wheel. But this time a different diagnosis. Also, the rear off side calliper and bearing were now leaking fluids. The same dealer just fitted a new bearing to the near side and would not accept that there was any fault with the opposite wheel. This went on for three weeks. Finally, I took my truck back and took it to a UK dealer, who said your truck is dangerous and confirmed the three separate faults I had told the dealer in France about and Mercedes Benz customer Service at Maastricht.

I have tried very hard to get Mercedes Benz France Customer Service to take action against their dealer. But they will not answer even simple questions. But I have been told they cannot contradict their dealer’s professional opinion.

Does anyone have some knowledge of the repair procedures for this truck? Are you prepared to give me some advice?

Technical bit now. The truck has rear brake disks that are fitted to the inside of the hub assembly. The hub assembly has undergone some continuous development. (I just love that bit) The reason being that when the original hub is refitted it may leak. Apparently the part that was continuously developed was the seal. The original part is now not available so if your hub leaks you need a complete new hub.

I would be interested if any other owners have experienced the same problem.

What I would really like to know is the repair procedure. For fitting new disks is there a warning about possible problems i.e. getting a good seal when refitting the hubs? What is the suggested repair procedure? Should the dealer have known about the problem?

Just a little wind up. The French dealer told me that you could replace the disks without removing the hubs, and that his twelve year old son could have carried out this work.
I think a bottle of bubbly is due to any mechanic that can remove or refit the disks (without cutting them in half) without removing the hub.

This is a very big can of worms! Lots of intrigue, do you want to get involved? Remember this could very easily happen to any of you when you venture into France! Be warned.

 

[peter814d]

Still hoping for some help. Does anyone know a commercial mechanic who could help, thanks

 

[dava]

Sorry I'm still confused but here goes. Basically wheels off the caliper comes off, half shaft out, knock over locking tabs, hub nuts off, remove hub complete with discs. Tip hub up, knock through with long punch on bearing, this knocks the bearing onto the seal, out it comes. Clean bearing, carefully tap new seal in, smear with a bit of grease to help slip on, grap hold of the hub and disc, slip carefully, without catching the seal over the axle, hold in place, insert outer bearing fit hub nut, tighten and slacken back half a turn, making sure no play, fit locking washer then outer locking nut, knock over locking tabs, sealer on halfshaft and refit to axle. If your fitting discs, bolts are at the back of the hub, 19mm I think? Remove them and knock off disc, refitting in same way. Fit caliper and new pads, sensors etc, refit wheels.

 

[peter814d]

Peter 814D brake problems in France need help

Hi Dava

Many thanks for reply did you read my first post? (peter814D) Sorry it’s all still a bit confusing but this has been going on for a very long time now and I am just going round in circles.

You say fit new hub seals I have been told you cannot buy just the seal as the hub has been modified and you must now buy a completely new hub. There is no exchange is this so.

So if you need a brake service new disks and pads, potentially you will need new hubs as well, as if as in my case you just refit the old hubs and they leak this could in fact be very dangerous.

If you removed the hubs and both sides leaked one to the point of bearing faliler what would you do? Would you accept responsibility? Is there a warning on the repair procedure? My VIN number is WDB 670 324 2N 092797

What would be the affect of the failing bearing being allowed to constantly rub against the pads? For example I got a red warning light on both occasions. This appeared to be a high fluid level with brake fluid leaking from the master cylinder cap as well as the calliper. If the pads were contaminated with axel fluid would it be dangerous to refit them.

This is a very good truck and serves me very well. I have had a number of jobs carried out in the UK with no problems.

Good luck.
Peter

 

[dava]

Right using your Vin I just spoke to MB and your right your hub assembly is the casstte style hub and to get the seal you have to buy a complete hub assembly at £250 each, part no 668 350 00 35. However, I would bet you can get the seal out and some where will sell the seals, bearing services etc. He could not tell me if it was possible to remove the seal, or even if you can get one and to be fair I'm not sure your truck has the modified hubs fitted or not, but at £500 I would do some research. They oviously have had problems foir them to modify them, I know we all call MB, me more than others, but usually and I say again, usually they do it for a good reason, so do some homework on your local bearing services etc. Why the brake fluid is coming out of the master cylinder cap, I can only assume it's getting hot and expanding, which if it is, is worrying in it's self, as will cause brake fade, or possibly when they fitted the pads they pushed the cylinders back and did not remove the excess fluid from the m/cyl. The red warning light is a brake pad sensor and could be badly fitted and rubbed through, not replaced when pads fitted or even oil from the hub geting onto the sensor a causing a earth. As for the warnaty bit, I think it could be down to them from what your saying and to be fair to them I've just heard your side, no offence meant, but at least if they are partly to blame they should offer some goodwill gesture. Hope it helps.
Ray

 

[peter814d]

Thanks for that DAVA

Yes, I now have two modified bearings fitted to my truck at £250 plus vat each. The dealer removed the hubs to fit new disks after I had a breakdown (truck not me) the dealer said it was brake seizure. Against my will they insisted in fitting two new disks as the disk affected by the brake seizure was badly scored. The disks were almost new so I felt I should have been able to have just one disk and new pads on both sides. They said it was obligatory to change the disks in pairs. This I was forced to accept and agreed for them to carry out the work.

So they removedboth hubs and fitted a new calliper near side, new disks, new pads and sensors. The bearings were not mentioned.

I did two more trips to the UK; on my return from the second trip I had exactly the same problem with near side wheel, the same wheel. Also the offside hub and calliper were now leaking axle oil and brake fluid as well.

This time the dealer said it’s the hub, and nothing to do with previous works. He would not acknowledge the problem with the opposite wheel. He had my truck for three weeks while I tried very hard to get the dealer and customer services at Maastricht to acknowledge the faults. Even to the extent of taking the director of the dealership into the inspection pit.

Hope I’m not boring you but this actually happened.

I had three faults on my truck the dealer would not acknowledge.

The offside brake calliper leaking.
The offside bearing leaking
The nearside disk badly scored on the outside (this was a new disk)

So I paid the dealer to fit the new hub and took my truck straight to a UK dealer.
The UK dealer confirmed all three faults and spoke to customer services and told them. They contacted the dealer and eventually he replied to them after a few false starts. He said all the faults must have happened on the way to the UK that’s right I’m physic.

But the worst thing by far is M/B France believe him. The last time I spoke to my case officer at Maastricht he said the dealer had been very clever as once I took my truck away he said that put the dealer in a very strong position. That’s right this is the same person who was my case officer, the same person I told I was going to take my truck back to the UK with faulty brakes. Did he say you can’t do that it may be dangerous we will have to get some one to look at your truck. I had asked for help but was told M/B doesn’t offer any technical help.

Finally he closed my case his reason was I quote “ Under no circumstances can they contradict a French dealer’s professional opinion.”

You still awake? I have been in contact with the Directors offices in the UK, Germany and France. I even had a meeting with a technical expert and most recently the Director of Customer Services in France. They will not answer any of my questions at all.
I waited six months to see the director, we spent three hours together, and he said he would get back to me. After many emails and five months he sent a reply saying he happy with what the dealer has done but suggested I have some work done at a French dealer?? He also sent his reply HIGH PRIORITY

How does all this affect you M/B owners at the forum?. Well if you take you M/B to a French dealer with say a loose fan belt and come out with a new clutch. You will have absolutely no help from customer services. That includes any help from the UK or Maastricht as whatever the dealer says is true.

I understand that this is very probably just the one dealer who is not willing to admit he made a mistake. But the knock on effect is it affects all the other dealers as well.

Just one more bit of stupidity. At the meeting with the dealer and tech man from Paris. I ask the dealer again to explain how is was that my truck was dangerous when it left his dealership? In front of the tech man and three others he suggested that the UK dealer just fitted the parts because I told them to. The tech man accepted this and did not push for a proper answer. As the meeting broke up the tech man took myself and my wife to one side and told us he was very unhappy with me for driving all the way to the UK in a dangerous truck that’s right he told me off, he then said to my wife what if my brakes had failed whilst driving past a school how would she have felt.

This all happened. French customer service have all this information and much, much more. How can I make them act?

Sorry about the rant but am at my wits end with all this. Is all I get is condescending platitudes and corporate gibberish.

 

[dava]

Firstly you dont have to fit discs in pairs, nice too, but at what cost? I can see why they did it, covering their bum, but at the end of the day your the customer. As to the other bits DIG and you'll get there I did! Bought a new R171 and it was not right, I followed the right route and got what I wanted, lot of hard work mind, but the felling of saying to the dealer 'swivel' was worth all the effort.

Hope I've been of help.

 

[George Rogers]

Vario Brakes

Hi Peter. Hope this isn't too late. Regarding the rear hubs, Vario's first had similar hubs to the 811 and 709. After that, they went to one piece bearings that you had to replace in one go with a press. The seal was contained in the bearing and taking off the hub could easily damage the bearing and pull the centres apart. If you look inside, you'll see the spring steel clip that holds the centres together. This comes apart easily when taking the hub off or sometimes when trying to put it back on. After that, they went to one piece hubs. You can push these bearings out but it's not easy getting the one piece bearing any more to replace it. Merc won't supply you with it, just a new hub complete. The rear brake problem. If you have new calipers on the rear and you are still getting problems with binding brakes and rapid wear of the linings, check the handbrake actuators. If the adjustment isn't correct on the spindle, as soon as the piston in the calliper has adjusted itself to the correct position-i.e. if you've just fitted new pads and wound back the pistons- the brakes will bind. If you notice on a new caliper, there is a locking position for the brake actuator to be pinned into the caliper body when you fit it. You then adjust the handbrake actuator shaft to the clevis pin position. If this adjustment is ok, make sure the system is maintaining enough air pressure to hold the brake off. Very early Vario's had an electric pump for the handbrake air and the pumps used to die causing all sorts of problems including one Vario we had where the axle caught fire! Good luck!