A bit of rust

[scousetechie]

I have a 1997 W202 estate and I'm getting a couple of rust spots. First one is on the edge of the driver's door and the second one is on the edge of the tailgate (It's an estate). It has a full MBSH and I was wondering if anybody can explain this 30 year rust warranty to me in simple terms as I seem to keep seeing conflicting views about it. The car goes in for a service in about 2k mile so I'd like to be able to ask the question.

TIA

 

[Blobcat]

1997 is too old for the 30 yr corrosion warranty, it came in in 1998. However pls check your service book as that will be that last word, if it has an extended corrosion warranty it will be listed there.

 

[scousetechie]

Thanks Blobcat I'll have a look in the morning.

 

[M6AJJ]

Try anyway with the dealer.

A good friend of mine has an early 98 E Class Estate ( pre Mobilo 30 year warranty) which started showing rust on the two front wings and the tailgate.

A little bit tongue in cheek he aked the dealer if MB would consider a warranty claim. They did all the usual measuring the paint thickness etc. and said that they would send a report to MB and for him not to expect a reply for a month or so.

Within a few days he was told that the claim was passed, a courtesy car was provided, and the repairs completed in about a week.

You never know!

 

[philharve]

Micro-meteorite damage?

Hi M6AJJ

That's good news. Maybe there's hope for the rest of us.

My car is now showing several small rust spots all over the bonnet including around the windscreen washer jets. I took it to the dealers several months ago about a small spot near the trailing edge of the bonnet and after using a magnifying glass and paint thickness gauge the dealer pronounced it as being due to a stone damage. However, the curve of the bonnet excludes the possibility of damage due to road chippings: it would have to have come from the sky. I suspect if I found paint flaking inside the boot the dealer would say 'stone damage!'

How do you deal with a dealer like this?

I am considering having the bonnet repainted at my own expense and never using the dealer again.

My indie said it was due to 'thin paint'. He recommended applying a good wax polish to keep the moisture from reaching the metal. But, surely, that's not the point. There should be a thick coating of paint?

Regards

Phil

 

[jberks]

I suspect if I found paint flaking inside the boot the dealer would say 'stone damage!'
How do you deal with a dealer like this?

In a word, you don't. If they're not on your side, you've no chance. However, you could always try another dealer and get a 2nd opinion. To be fair, stone chips can happen anywhere on any panel so he could be right. See what the next guy says.

I am considering having the bonnet repainted at my own expense and never using the dealer again.

You still use the dealer on a 2000 car? I don't and mine is a 2004!

My indie said it was due to 'thin paint'. He recommended applying a good wax polish to keep the moisture from reaching the metal. But, surely, that's not the point. There should be a thick coating of paint?

Sure, it should have thicker paint like Mercs of old, but for various reasons, including weight, it hasn't. The advice is still good though and should be followed no matter what the paint quality. Mine was last polished 6 months ago and is now due another before winter sets in, plus the wheels need another coat. On top of that, I carefully scan all the panels for stone chips and touch them up at least once a month, irrespecive of the fact that most panels are aluminium and won't rust anyway. It's just sensible care really and kept my 2000 E class in reasonable condition - despite it's rust bucket credentials so should stand my 211 in good stead.

 

[television]

Hi M6AJJ
There should be a thick coating of paint?

Regards

Phil

In actual fact thick paint chips easier than thin, when a stone hits thin paint it will make a small hole, and on thick paint a large hole, this should not be confussed with poor primers or pre painting metal treatment.

Stones can and do hit the car anywhere, that includes the all of the front, the windscreen and roof, some fly right over the car onto the boot.

When a magnifing glass is used to examine the edges of the chip or rust you can see the original cause. Anyone offering a 30 year rust guarantee will always be open to abuse, as are firms like Argus where someone takes the goods back after 11 months and say thay are faulty, and they get a new one.

Car makers have to abide by EU regs as to what paint can be used. car paints hold their new apperance longer now than ever before, if you don't think so, cast your mind back to the cars painted red or gold of days gone by,the days when after 3 years the bonnet went a different colour from the rest of the car, or the days of the old metalics where there colour was determined by any one of, Air pressure, angle, temp and distance, and after all that it was easier to redpray the whole car. These days the colour retaining qualities and matching are near perfect.

Malcolm


I have almost finnished an article on dealing with stone chips, it is almost finished, but it will be safe and fool proof

 

[FELLOW]

Rusty again!

These discussions are all too familiar.

I've a silver 320CLK on a T'plate.

I bought it second hand from a Mercedes Dealer in Yorkshire and within the first year it had bubbling and rust over the rear wheel arches.

I ask the dealership to take a look while it was beeing serviced at another branch - they said it had previously been resprayed, had filler in the wings and wouldn't be covered! Inside the dealership I asked to speak to the manager with the body shop bloke. I called the previous owner infront of him, showed he the service log, the HPI record and the mercedes body check report prior to buying it 3 months previously and pointed out it was still under its one yr second hand guarantee let alone MB guarantee!

This was repeated at the original dealer ship on multiple occassions including after they had measured paint thickness.

Eventually they took the car away for 3 weeks and said it had been treated under mercedes guarantee. (Re-spray)

Now the paint is bubbling again.

Should they replace the pannels not just respray?
(I know there are cheap light pannels and mercedes own pannels which are thicker.)

What do you think?

 

[mioba]

1997 is too old for the 30 yr corrosion warranty, it came in in 1998. However pls check your service book as that will be that last word, if it has an extended corrosion warranty it will be listed there.

i think pre 98 the cars has a 10 year warranty on perforation. infact i am quiet sure as i enqured about it with my 124 a few years back.

 

[television]

These discussions are all too familiar.
Now the paint is bubbling again.

Should they replace the pannels not just respray?
(I know there are cheap light pannels and mercedes own pannels which are thicker.)

What do you think?

To see if a wing is worth painting the paint must be sanded off to a bright metal finish, any black marks in the metal show that the metal is porous and this will let the moisture come through and bubble the paint.

The construction of MB front wings and the plastic wheel arch protector is not good, cars like Volvo bring the plastic liner out to fit against the return lip on the wing, OK you can just see it, but on the MB the liner ends inside the wing. There is a gap of about 15mm that can and does fill with dirt, when its wet it turns to mud, as the wind and air cannot pass through this part of the car it stays wet, this will and does rot the metal. Though MIG welding is good on thin panels the cost is higher than that of a new wing.

With all of my MB's the first thing I do is to clean the dirt out with a thin wooden stick and high presure wash it clean, Next I spray a good coating of Waxoil. The wheel has to come off to do this, don't believe me, go out and put your finger inside the wheel arch, I will guarantee that its full of wetish mud.
I am not getting involved with who should fix it, I do my own through peace of mind, though my new 16k mile car was valeted befor I bought it and it looked clean, there was some mud. Its all been removed and Waxoiled and I have only had it 6 days. Do the rear as well if you love your car.

malcolm

 

[Simon Barry]

Thats very sensible Televison, I had noted those gaps in the wheelbays but had simply accepted it.
Its too late on my 202 but will follow that advice when I buy a 203.

Simon Barry

 

[philharve]

Hi jberks

In a word, you don't. If they're not on your side, you've no chance. However, you could always try another dealer and get a 2nd opinion. To be fair, stone chips can happen anywhere on any panel so he could be right. See what the next guy says.

I guess you're right. My indie noticed rust appearing around the windscreen water jets and he said that's a surefire indicator of thin paint. He said I should persist with my claim. In his opinion this is the cause of the tiny rust spots. But as you say, if the dealer disagees, that's that.

I used this dealer because I wanted a 'B' service to be carried out. I wanted to see what their quality of workmanship was like and how much I would be charged. By taking my car to them I hoped to demonstrate my loyalty but in retrospect I believe my strategy was ill conceived. Apart from the GBP300.00+ bill I was even charged for a windscreen wash refill when it didn't require one. I topped it up prior to taking the car to the dealer. I was warned I might be charged for services/parts I didn't need. Now I know this was good advice.

I don't sense any customer care at this dealership. I complained in writing and received a written reply but it skipped my original complaint and simply remarked that Mercedes servicing was second to none.

I will bear in mind your suggestion of getting a second opinion but looking longer term I think I will be funding any repainting myself. At least I will feel I have a degree of control over the work.

Regards

Phil

 

[FELLOW]

Waxoil it is then!

Thanks for the advice regarding waxoil and jet washing - same sort of problem with the old Capri's in their day.

Has anyone cut back the arches on a CLK before - hmm! my old hot hatch days are returning to mind- to deal with the rust and allow for bigger rears?

 

[television]

Thanks for the advice regarding waxoil and jet washing - same sort of problem with the old Capri's in their day.

Has anyone cut back the arches on a CLK before - hmm! my old hot hatch days are returning to mind- to deal with the rust and allow for bigger rears?

You do not have to cut them any more, there are plenty of wheel arch flaring tools on the market now, very simple to use.

Malcolm

 

[jberks]

With all of my MB's the first thing I do is to clean the dirt out with a thin wooden stick and high presure wash it clean, Next I spray a good coating of Waxoil. The wheel has to come off to do this, don't believe me, go out and put your finger inside the wheel arch, I will guarantee that its full of wetish mud.
my new 16k mile car was valeted befor I bought it and it looked clean, there was some mud. Its all been removed and Waxoiled and I have only had it 6 days. Do the rear as well if you love your car.

This is an interesting issue. Do you, or do you not remove the mud that collects around the inner lip of the wings? If you do, then you risk scratching it and removing whatever protection is there. If you don't the mud will stay and could retain moisture. Then again, if dry and left to build up thick enough, it could actually protect the panel by stopping air and moisture reaching it. I've never figured out what the best policy is.
Add to that the from wings on the 211 (and I assume your new beastie Malcolm) are aluminum - does it matter anyway?
All very confusing.

 

[television]

This is an interesting issue. Do you, or do you not remove the mud that collects around the inner lip of the wings? If you do, then you risk scratching it and removing whatever protection is there. If you don't the mud will stay and could retain moisture. Then again, if dry and left to build up thick enough, it could actually protect the panel by stopping air and moisture reaching it. I've never figured out what the best policy is.
Add to that the from wings on the 211 (and I assume your new beastie Malcolm) are aluminum - does it matter anyway?
All very confusing.

Number one, there is no protection on the inner sides of the wing, on my previous 129 I took the liners off to fit the fins, and had to high presure wash the wing and liner before it would go back to the correct position.

To avoid scratching the paint,I first soak wth water, if you do not have a pressure washer, the empty hand sprays that you use around the house give a powerful jet at close range with the minimum of mess. I use a round top wooden pin about 5mm in diameter after the mud has soaked, it comes off in layers, not all in one go, but this depends on the milage of the car, when dry, a good coating of Waxoil is applied. Hand gun kits from Halfords around £12 are perfect (put a blanket or cloth over the brakes).

Even if my wings are alli, there is a thing called alli rot when left exposed to the elements, it looks like white powder, when sanded the surface is like a moon landscape. Once like that it has to be cut out and replaced. the problem was much worse in years gone by when steel fittings were used to hold trim, on the metal volage +/- table alli is one side and steel the other. a unchecked stone chip on an alli surface should be treated for it too will rot, take a look at alloy wheels when water has got under the clear coating, quite a mess builds up in no time. Clear coats although two pack catalyst curing still do not have the same stregth as those with pigment added, sadly these are now banned from use. What also affect paint is a problem known as pin holes, I used to have a pin hole detector, this is where microscopic holes form in the paint when it dries, this could also account for some of the blisters that still appear on some cars through no stone chip damage.
My new car gets attraction from other MB owners, last week a E class owner showed the blister on the windscreen suround about the size of a 1P coin, the car was on a 55 plate with 8k miles. he said that MB had taken a photo and that he was waiting to hear from them. but as he said "you do not expect an MB to rust" I have asked him to let me know how they fix it, I could see no damage with the small magnifier that I keep with me, this had to be down to poor preperation on the bare steel.

People abroad seem more aware of cleaning the under sides of their cars, I have posted before that you hire a 4 post lift and presure washer for about £5 per hour. you get paople from all groups doing it themself. it is a messy job but you only do it once or twice in the time that you have the car.

You can all remember the days of the huge blisters that appeared on cars of the 70-80's over the head lamps, caused by the build up of mud, run your finger around the inner lip on the arches it will come out black from the caked mud, it also builds up around the fitting clamps that hold the mudflaps on. don't forget the this dirt/mud is thrown with some force from the tyres, it does not stick very well to waxoil and it stops the build up. OK I am one of the worlds most fussy persons, I do keep my cars for some time.

Malcolm





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[benzo]

OK I am one of the worlds most fussy persons, I do keep my cars for some time.

I think we might be better off buying our used mercs off you

Any simpler way to do this without taking wheels off or any pictures? Any thing beyond washing/waxing and 'hoovering' the car, I tend to look for someone else to do it. Lazy I know...

 

[television]

I think we might be better off buying our used mercs off you
.

When I sold my 129 the guy made up his mind in under 3 mins. you will have to wait some years for the 230, in 6 years time in will be under 40k miles.any way I have not waxoiled yet, and I still have to polish the brake callipers.

Malcolm

 

[television]

How it should be.

I hate rusty looking brakes so 1 hour later you have this.

malcolm

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Hi Malcolm, nice photo. I treat my brake discs to a paint job as you do. If you have a nice set of alloys with large open spokes it makes all the difference.

On the subject of 129s, I saw a beauty for sale the other day at an indy near Birmingham. A 320SL on an S plate in silver with 23K and it looked immaculate for 14K, what a buy. I'm not in the market for one but it was hard to walk away.

The reason for the trip to Brummy was that the EIS system on my E class has just about failed and the Indy I used for a diagnosis has quoted £400 + vat for a replacement EIS module which will be done in 2 weeks time. Fingers crossed it solves the problem and I will post the outcome.