A Class - petrol or diesel?

[slender]

If you were driving around 15,000 miles a year, travelling primarily at traffic-free times along dual carriageway and motorways, would you plump for an automatic 150 or 170 petrol A Class or an automatic 180 diesel A Class?

 

[hawk20]

If you were driving around 15,000 miles a year, travelling primarily at traffic-free times along dual carriageway and motorways, would you plump for an automatic 150 or 170 petrol A Class or an automatic 180 diesel A Class?

Sorry I missed your posting. I would definitely go for a 180cdi diesel. I have two (one for wife). My brother has a 160cdi and my daughter also has the 180cdi Avantgarde. Great cars.

See my reply in this thread: -
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=37552

 

[hawk20]

And here is Honest John's view: -
The first big improvement of the new A Class is the feeling of heavy, Germanic solidity. There’s nothing flimsy about it. The plastics are thick. The pile of the upholstery and carpeting is deep. Even the feel of the rear seats as you fold them is reassuringly over-engineered. Unlike the original, it’s a proper Mercedes in miniature rather than just a small car with a Mercedes badge.
It drives and handles like a larger, heavier car too. It’s quiet, refined and smooth. You could step out of an old W123 E Class or a W126 S Class into a new A Class and feel the cars were made in the same factory by the same people

 

[slender]

Thanks for your comments, Hawk20.

I have now completely ruled out a petrol A Class and am currently pondering an A160 or A180 auto. Whichever I plump for will be in Elegance or Avantgarde trim. The A160 does seem in far more plentiful supply and at a reasonable price. I'm hoping to have test drives in both this weekend. Pre-test I'm thinking about whether the leisurely A160 could become a little tiresome in real-life driving. My only other issue is whether I should hold out for an A Class with the seemingly ultra rare comfort seats and maybe even the rarer still reach adjustment on the steering wheel. Whilst the A Class's I've sat in without these features seem fine I am coming out of a large Volvo which has a very fine seating and steering set up - decisions, decisions. Test drives are now needed!

Thanks for the links as well - very interesting.

 

[hawk20]

It all turns on leg length IMO. I have 33 inch inside leg and very few cars offer me enough legroom. The Mercedes usually do. VW never do, nor Toyota, nor even the big Lexus 4x4.

Here's the point. If you have long legs, you need to push the seat well back, in any car, to get the thighs properly supported. As you do so, the wheel becomes further and further away till you end up boy racer style with arms out straight just to reach the wheel. That is the wrong position for driving. Want a natural arms realxed and bent (kinked at the elbow). The reach adjustment on the steering wheel is essential for me. And only costs £115. Should be standard IMO.

But for my wife it is of no benefit. She pushes it fully forward.

I would say, if your leg length is 31", or 32", or 33" or more you will benefit. Below that not.

Comfort seats: - the standard seat is just as comfortable as the 'comfort seats'. Same shape and same padding etc. BUT the comfort seats give you an adjustable lumbar support, and tilt adjustment of the squab. Useful if you are long legged.

Height adjustment is standard on the drivers seat but with Comfort Seats you get height adjustment on the passenger seat as well. The comfort seats option is only £80. Should be standard IMO.

Whatever you do I would avoid the Sports suspension (so would most reviewers). On UK roads it is far too hard and harsh.

Since there are no great finance offers at the moment for existing stock I assume you could factory order what you really want. (You could even collect from the factory which is a really interesting trip and comes at no extra charge).

 

[slender]

It all turns on leg length IMO. I have 33 inch inside leg and very few cars offer me enough legroom. The Mercedes usually do. VW never do, nor Toyota, nor even the big Lexus 4x4.

Here's the point. If you have long legs, you need to push the seat well back, in any car, to get the thighs properly supported. As you do so, the wheel becomes further and further away till you end up boy racer style with arms out straight just to reach the wheel. That is the wrong position for driving. Want a natural arms realxed and bent (kinked at the elbow). The reach adjustment on the steering wheel is essential for me. And only costs £115. Should be standard IMO.

But for my wife it is of no benefit. She pushes it fully forward.

I would say, if your leg length is 31", or 32", or 33" or more you will benefit. Below that not.

Comfort seats: - the standard seat is just as comfortable as the 'comfort seats'. Same shape and same padding etc. BUT the comfort seats give you an adjustable lumbar support, and tilt adjustment of the squab. Useful if you are long legged.

Height adjustment is standard on the drivers seat but with Comfort Seats you get height adjustment on the passenger seat as well. The comfort seats option is only £80. Should be standard IMO.

Whatever you do I would avoid the Sports suspension (so would most reviewers). On UK roads it is far too hard and harsh.

Since there are no great finance offers at the moment for existing stock I assume you could factory order what you really want. (You could even collect from the factory which is a really interesting trip and comes at no extra charge).

You sound like a similar build to myself - I'm 6' 4" tall with a 33" inside leg. Along with damaged knees that need supportive seats you can see my problem and the reason why I've been in big Volvos for about the last seven years. As Volvo do not make a small car that fits my needs I find myself at Mercedes door. You are spot on with your description of the seats. I've tried an A Class without comfort seats and found them to be very good. Thigh support (crucial for me) was excellent and I actually needed to pull the drivers seat forward a touch. I've sat in an A Class with comfort seats and the already good seats became slightly more versatile and extra thigh support is always welcome - especially if the seat is brought just slightly more forward to compensate for the lack of reach adjustment. My arms, when the seats are set for maximum leg comfort are just a little bit more outstretched than in the Volvo. I can, and have, tweaked the backrest and I'm really not far away from an excellent seating position. Reach adjustment would be fantastic. I've spent a long time looking at a huge number of cars and the A Class is one of only a handful that I can fit in comfortably. The A Class is unusual in that the steering wheel is positioned such that I can get my knees under it easily. I'm sure you've discovered the number of large and executive cars that, even with adjustable steering wheels, have a very cramped drivers environment?

My budget is up to £14K so buying new isn't really an option. I'm tantalisingly close to getting what I want, but, having waited so long to find the right car, I'm not in a rush to buy just anything. The only other issue for me is I have a brief window of opportunity to get an A Class in the next few weeks before I'm back in the operating theatre for another knee op and then laid up again for weeks. The Volvo, whilst it has served me well, is now far too low to get in and out of comfortably post-op and less practical than the A Class.

I've noticed a number of reviewers have commented on the harshness of the ride when larger wheels are fitted so I shall be more than happy to have 15" or 16" wheels on a basic suspension set up.

Thanks for all your input - it's really appreciated.

 

[RGubbioli]

And here is Honest John's view: -
The first big improvement of the new A Class is the feeling of heavy, Germanic solidity. There’s nothing flimsy about it. The plastics are thick. The pile of the upholstery and carpeting is deep. Even the feel of the rear seats as you fold them is reassuringly over-engineered. Unlike the original, it’s a proper Mercedes in miniature rather than just a small car with a Mercedes badge.
It drives and handles like a larger, heavier car too. It’s quiet, refined and smooth. You could step out of an old W123 E Class or a W126 S Class into a new A Class and feel the cars were made in the same factory by the same people

I know I will not make any friends with what I am about to say, but I really think Honest John's comments are totally unsubstatiated on this occasion (keep in mind I normally trust his views and consult his site).

I had an A class for one week (latest model, 180CDi) and drove about 800 miles in it in that time, covering both motorway long distance and city driving. It was the auto version. What a dissapointment! My thoughts when driving it where 'if this didn't have a Merc badge on I would believe it is made South Korea'. The ride was dissapointing even on the base plastic trim wheels (15"s?), it felt like it would topple over in corners and, compared to the contemporary Golf, it feels much shorter on quality (heard a few squeaks from interior trim) and felt much 'tinnier' with hard trim bits (especially in the radio a/c area) etc. The engine was nowhere as economical as other diesels of same size (1.9 VW, 1.9 Ford, 1.9 Fiat-Alfa) and also less 'willing' on the m-way on midrange pull. The dashboard was hard to read when at speed (writings too small) and , to boot, it developed a fault that had the ASR light on all week.

To say that it bears any resemblance to a W123 (which I owned) or W126 is, in my view, an insult to Mercedes of old.

I hope you guys don't take too much offence given that you own this car, moreover, I'd be willing to hear why you rate it as a good car.

 

[hawk20]

Read these links and I think you will see why so many rate it so highly including Honest John, Autocar, and even Jeremy Clarkson.

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=33319

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=37265

I simply cannot recognise your description. I came from an S class which I bought only 3 months old and prior to that have owned an ML and numerous E's. I regard it as in every way as well built as they were. All the space of an E class. Beautifully made. My brother gets well over 60mpg from his A160cdi, which he has had for 3 years with no troubles at all. My wife has the A 180cdi Avantgarde and I have the A 180cdi Elegance. My daughter has just bought the A180cdi Avantgarde.

The automatic box is smoother than the S class and gives 52.3 mpg combined figure. The manual 180 does 54.3. The A160cdi does even more.

Here is Adam Towler's view from Autocar: -

"You can form an opinion on the new, much-improved A-class based on the sharp exterior, or the fact that it now drives like you’d expect a small Mercedes to. But it was the intersection of the A-pillar, door and dashboard that summed it up for me.
Unlike the old car, with its less than substantial interior, the solid, slab-sided plastics of the new one and the way they join together are proper Mercedes-Benz. They’re just there, with a uniform gap between them – and look like they’ll be for a long time. It’s a small but important indication of the leap in standards.

That the new A-class is really good is hardly breaking news, but this is our first steer in the diesels and they’re rather good too. The basic 1991cc block is used across all three of the Euro4 compliant diesels (A160 CDI, A180 CDI, A200 CDI) but it’s the 108bhp A180 CDI we’re concentrating on here.
With second-generation common-rail injection technology operating at up to 23,000 psi, and an increased capacity over the outgoing engine, the 180 produces 184lb ft between 1600 and 2600rpm. Its character suits the A-class well, delivering a strong surge of pulling power from low revs and sustaining this push without any noticeable drop-off through a wide range. Stay away from the final 1500rpm on the dial and it’s refined, too, remaining smooth and free from awkward harmonics. It’s superior to a VW Golf TDi and to the more powerful A200 Cdi, which is rougher under acceleration. The 180 is an eminently driveable engine and a good match for the car. And Mercedes claims it will return an impressive 54.3mpg.
Despite ubiquitous use of the term ‘driving pleasure’ by so many of Europe’s car companies, the A-class is not a car to rival the BMW 1- series for driver appeal. But that’s not to say it isn’t an appealing car. The main improvement over the old car is the ride, which has a supple but well controlled big-car quality to it, whether at high speed or around town. There’s plenty of poise through bends, decent outright grip and accurate steering with well-judged, speed-sensitive weighting. As you sit high, surrounded by MPV-like architecture, you’re not inclined to push hard, but the diesel A-class can be driven quickly with a minimum of fuss.

The driving position is very adjustable, visibility’s good, and the cabin has a quality feel in both its construction and ambience. It’s also spacious – especially in the rear – and offers versatility; there’s even an optional removable front passenger seat.
UK buyers will have to wait until early next year before right-hand drive cars are delivered, and can expect to pay accordingly to put a three-pointed star on their driveway. But the new A-class is everything the old one should have been: an individual, practical, prestige-badged small car. And it’s a real Mercedes.
Adam Towler

 

[hawk20]

I drove ours to Spain and Back, 3,000 miles in a fortnight and had a real chance to try it out in a range of conditions. Here's the link: -
http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=42833

 

[RGubbioli]

Reading your detailed personal review (thanks for sharing) it almost seems like we've driven totally different cars! The same things I criticise you commend and its not like neither of us has no experience with other (more expensive) cars. I did drive the base model, which was very basic inside and had few options. Maybe it was a lemon. Maybe it really was a Proton in drag

I still think there are some W123s turning in their graves, but I figure what makes the world interesting is the difference in interpretations and views as well as satisfaction of different needs. We could probably discuss this till the cows come home and still differ at the end of the day, what else can one say!

 

[rhud]

Well - the A Class certainly seems to divide people. I think the answers lie somewhere down the middle, as usual. We have to accept that the ride quality is not the car's strongest suit, even on 15 inch wheels. But after five months of ownership I am steadily getting used to it, after having been quite worried at the outset.

But - there is so much else to admire about the car, which can be summed up as the sheer feeling that this is a quality product. Golf? Just plain boring by comparison - and increasing evidence from 'owner reviews' that VW build quality is on the slide just as MB is on the up.

Diesel or petrol. Well, I suspect that this will always divide consumers. For me, it's that nice smooth start-up compared to a van-like rumble. But then I am a 5-6000 mile a year man.

I got a good deal on a A150 Classic SE in stock, so had to forgo comfort seat pack. I found lumbar support was required and bought the MB 'seat back cushion' - as its described in the A Class accessories brochure - and this has done the trick beautifully.

This is a really good car. Not perfect - but really good. With - wait for it - outstanding -I choose the word carefully - customer service from my local MB main dealer.

 

[hawk20]

Reading your detailed personal review (thanks for sharing) it almost seems like we've driven totally different cars! The same things I criticise you commend and its not like neither of us has no experience with other (more expensive) cars. I did drive the base model, which was very basic inside and had few options. Maybe it was a lemon. Maybe it really was a Proton in drag

I still think there are some W123s turning in their graves, but I figure what makes the world interesting is the difference in interpretations and views as well as satisfaction of different needs. We could probably discuss this till the cows come home and still differ at the end of the day, what else can one say!

It would be nice if you could drive an A180cdi Elegance or Avantgarde that was not being thrashed around as a loan car. Then our views might come closer.

I drove an E class demonstrator some years back and it put me right off. Bits falling off, rattles etc. Later on I tried a friends and could not believe it was the same car. Bought one and it was fine. I don't know what happens to loan cars, but it seems a hard life unrelated to normal use.

BTW there is almost no roll in corners as all reviewers have noted. the car has adaptive damping which is fabulous on corners. The one you drove sounds faulty.

 

[RGubbioli]

Hawk, I agree. In fact I was even thinking of giving the A class a second chance following the positive comments. Then again, it would be another rental car (I rent every week) so not sure it would be much better, even if at this time of year they are renewing the fleet, last 4 weeks I have had cars with less than 600miles on them.

Do all of them have the adaptive damping? The one I drove felt like it was leaning way too much on the quick m-way slip roads and the ride was stiff (worst of both worlds) so it either didn't have the option or was indeed faulty.

One thing that I did find superb on it was the autobox. Quick seamless changes and it would downshift going down the hills which was great. Fantastic and light years better than the standard VW autobox on the Golf.

 

[slender]

Well - the A Class certainly seems to divide people. I think the answers lie somewhere down the middle, as usual. We have to accept that the ride quality is not the car's strongest suit, even on 15 inch wheels. But after five months of ownership I am steadily getting used to it, after having been quite worried at the outset.

But - there is so much else to admire about the car, which can be summed up as the sheer feeling that this is a quality product. Golf? Just plain boring by comparison - and increasing evidence from 'owner reviews' that VW build quality is on the slide just as MB is on the up.

Diesel or petrol. Well, I suspect that this will always divide consumers. For me, it's that nice smooth start-up compared to a van-like rumble. But then I am a 5-6000 mile a year man.

I got a good deal on a A150 Classic SE in stock, so had to forgo comfort seat pack. I found lumbar support was required and bought the MB 'seat back cushion' - as its described in the A Class accessories brochure - and this has done the trick beautifully.

This is a really good car. Not perfect - but really good. With - wait for it - outstanding -I choose the word carefully - customer service from my local MB main dealer.

Rhud, is your car manual or automatic and what mpg figures do you get?

 

[rhud]

My car is a manual. Averaging 37/38 mpg - all of it 'urban' - still less than 2,000 on the clock so far, so by all accounts this should improve (also with longer-trip summer driving).

 

[slender]

My car is a manual. Averaging 37/38 mpg - all of it 'urban' - still less than 2,000 on the clock so far, so by all accounts this should improve (also with longer-trip summer driving).

Thanks for that, Rhud.

 

[gring]

My wife has a 3 year old A190, I wouldnt drive it if you payed me. It feels like its gonna topple over around corners, bumpy ride and I feel like noddy driving it.

 

[hawk20]

My wife has a 3 year old A190, I wouldnt drive it if you payed me. It feels like its gonna topple over around corners, bumpy ride and I feel like noddy driving it.

Try the new one. Lot more room than a CLK.

 

[gring]

Try the new one. Lot more room than a CLK.

Lots of room or lots of style..... mmmmm..... let me think........

 

[gring]

No, seriously, my wife does 160 miles a day comute to work in it, she thinks its great. and I suppose as a workhorse it is great. Just not for me!


Also dont you think it looks like a roller skate???