A few little questions about buying STAR.

[LostKiwi]

One of the big issues with the cloud is latency, i.e. the time required for a single request to transit from host to cloud and back. This isn't normally an issue for single request transactions but when an application makes 90 requests as part of a transaction it becomes a bigger issue.

For example if a request takes 20ms to make the return trip from end to end and back (at that's quite low for the interest) a large transaction comprised of 90 requests could take 1800ms which could be a major issue. It's not quite that simple (buffers, TCP sliding windows etc all mitigate this to some extent).

 

[Conor]

One of the big issues with the cloud is latency, i.e. the time required for a single request to transit from host to cloud and back. This isn't normally an issue for single request transactions but when an application makes 90 requests as part of a transaction it becomes a bigger issue.

For example if a request takes 20ms to make the return trip from end to end and back (at that's quite low for the interest) a large transaction comprised of 90 requests could take 1800ms which could be a major issue. It's not quite that simple (buffers, TCP sliding windows etc all mitigate this to some extent).

Agreed, I didn't realise there were many requests.

I guess it depends on the software and if is tolerant of the delays or not.

I do know that in the EMV Card transactions there are many messages passed over and back between the card and terminal..I do agree that it may not work, but i'd be curious to see if it worked. It would be cool.

 

[Botus]

on the speed front the new kit is super fast.

You can buy for £150 something that will work on up to 2012 or earlier Merc's. It will scan, talk, show live data and clear issues to 50 modules in my S class. Its taking 35 minutes to do this as it jumps round the 4 can bus systems at the same time, the very latest Merc dealer kit does the same thing in 4 minutes. So the later MUX must be doing a great job, its not just later cars talking faster.

If you have a strong motor vehicle tech background, you are retired / have no young family to stop you researching and want to own Mercedes for many years and have a few friends / family hoping to keep at least 3 to 4 Mercs running, then I can see investment in a copy of dealer kit could be a good idea.

However for the home user who has too much money and wants to start playing and begin to get their heads around the electronics side of things, I would get a generic bit of kit (around £700 - much the same price as fake copy of a modern STAR with Aug 2019 software off ebay). But the generic one will do all brands "to the same level of diagnostics" the dealer kit does.

The one for £150 I mention above when it was a current model was £600 5 years back, although its still capable of working on the new stuff they have deliberately stopped updates on BMW and MERC. Which is a bit odd as they still do new stuff for Ford and VAG and of late have added lots of support on most current and old Japanese cars.

As I understand it, the only extra advantage of a "non online STAR set up" (for home fixable type work) is that it has walk through on what to do next. But this is still aimed at competent tech's with a shed load of tools and quite a bit of experience about where things are and how they screwed it together. Spending 700 on diagnostics then breaking a 300 quid component pulling the car apart and then waiting 4 days for the bit that was actually broken, isn't necessarily cost effective. A local indie might have done it with out breaking anything for £95 inside a morning.

And then remember, if you plan on working on cars after 2010, half the fixes is to flash modules with later version of the software... and that's where fake STAR unravels

For 3 k you can buy kit that will actually flash modules from manu servers.... looking the other day I see most car manufacturers are starting to offer a pay per hour rate- allowing the right kit to talk and grab the files. Which of course will never be available to fake STAR set ups. I think its £30 a day for BMW

 

[ajlsl600]

if was me i would just get the offline clone star. will do just about everything one needs at not a great cost , whilst not completely understanding yr proposal i am a great believer in keeping it as simple as possible,given benz intent to make it as difficult as possible,my clone seems to me the best way of dealing with most issues... still looking on how to turn off parking sensors when towing tho !! as benz ,for the time being have made that,i am advised,an online thing at as such fairly hard to get around at the moment .. someone will find a way and i am watching for that .so far the only thing i have NEEDED to do that my system as i understand it cant ,so i aint complaining too much.

 

[curious]

And then remember, if you plan on working on cars after 2010, half the fixes is to flash modules with later version of the software... and that's where fake STAR unravels

What changed in 2010?
I've an ebay Star with 2009 software that covered the 3 MBs I had and, still covers my 2007 Vito but, I'm thinking of getting a later Vito and realise I'll need later s/w. However, in light of your comment what will be missing? (I've previously reflashed the ECU on my 2005 W203 with great success.)
My personal thoughts are that the Star h/w bought from ebay are not clones or fakes but additional ones that are produced by the manufacturer and released into the market for their own benefit on the side.

 

[alexanderfoti]

What changed in 2010?
I've an ebay Star with 2009 software that covered the 3 MBs I had and, still covers my 2007 Vito but, I'm thinking of getting a later Vito and realise I'll need later s/w. However, in light of your comment what will be missing? (I've previously reflashed the ECU on my 2005 W203 with great success.)
My personal thoughts are that the Star h/w bought from ebay are not clones or fakes but additional ones that are produced by the manufacturer and released into the market for their own benefit on the side.

OFfline coding was removed as an option, and all coding/programming takes place online.

 

[ajlsl600]

OFfline coding was removed as an option, and all coding/programming takes place online.

B,s ! hope someone finds a way around that .. my star goes to 2015, and luckily covers my latest w166, unluckily it wont as far as i can determine educate the w166 as to a tow bar fit as mr sneaky benz has deemed this ,as you say an online thing . when i get time i will look at wiring diagram and see if a simple switch is possible,without that bringing up any warning lights .

 

[Botus]

SCN means you can only code after your system and Mercedes system online with each other agree its a good idea, otherwise you don't have the permission and or the file to flash the module with. Manufacturers spend more time stopping you and making it go wrong, than they do on the way it drives down the road

 

[curious]

Oh dear.
OK, so I can see they've withheld software updates that were previously possible but, does that include trivial settings such as for example, previously, the ability to configure folding mirrors on a W203 on door locking?
Without the online stuff is it nothing more than a code reader and to view settings and information?

 

[alexanderfoti]

Oh dear.
OK, so I can see they've withheld software updates that were previously possible but, does that include trivial settings such as for example, previously, the ability to configure folding mirrors on a W203 on door locking?
Without the online stuff is it nothing more than a code reader and to view settings and information?

No it doesnt, its exclusively for "control module initialisation" or control module programming.

 

[LostKiwi]

Oh dear.
OK, so I can see they've withheld software updates that were previously possible but, does that include trivial settings such as for example, previously, the ability to configure folding mirrors on a W203 on door locking?
Without the online stuff is it nothing more than a code reader and to view settings and information?

Not at all. You can still do things and test stuff, not just read.

 

[ajlsl600]

thank god we can , would be broke otherwise.

 

[Conor]

@Botus thanks so much for the great reply.

I can see your sentiment and advice might be best taken by a lot of people.. But I (better or worse) fall into the bucket of people who are somewhat technically minded and happy to research bits and bobs.

As previously mentioned I am more than happy to use for read / diagnostics only. And I will cross the bridge of SCN/programming at a later stage.

I will probably put it up on Fat Llama for rent in London too at about 10/15 per day .

 

[curious]

Mine paid for itself alone with reprogramming the W203's ECU that had gone rogue.
The one thing (and only once did I need to do such a thing) has been removed with post 2010 s/w versions, but is still worth having if everything else in effect remains.

 

[Conor]

Mine paid for itself alone with reprogramming the W203's ECU that had gone rogue.
The one thing (and only once did I need to do such a thing) has been removed with post 2010 s/w versions, but is still worth having if everything else in effect remains.

Yea, I think that with sessions costing around 60-70 here in London and running 2 MBs, I imagine payback should not be too far on the horizon. Especially considering one of those motors is an R230.

 

[alexanderfoti]

Especially considering one of those motors is an R230.

It will get a good workout on that

 

[curious]

Just thinking out loud...
Does all control module programming disappear, including pre 2010 vehicles, with post 2010 s/w?
In other words would I need to keep 2 versions of s/w, pre 2010, to still allow programming on older vehicles and post 2010, to cater for newer vehicles?

 

[alexanderfoti]

Just thinking out loud...
Does all control module programming disappear, including pre 2010 vehicles, with post 2010 s/w?
In other words would I need to keep 2 versions of s/w, pre 2010, to still allow programming on older vehicles and post 2010, to cater for newer vehicles?

Yes, after 2010 software version, the ability to program older cars dissappears. The firmware files are essentially no longer stored on the local machine and have to be downloaded via scn for all vehicles.