A few words of warning about Insurance and Repairs

[Shezbo]

As a reply to a earlier thread - I thought it prudent to enlighten and help some when it comes to insurance:

All

Just a quick word about insurance, insurance policy rates (£'s) and insurance company "repair" activity. Let me start by saying day in day out I work with insurance companies and Bodyshops and see both ends of the market work i.e. the initial cost of an annual policy and then HOW that policy fixes the car?

Just step back from the situation for a moment, you have purchased £40k worth of Merc and then find the cheapest cover possible. That sentance just does not compute does it?
Why not have the car serviced by a back street garage as cheaply as possible whilst you are at it....well we would not do that would we! Yet the choice of insurance (by price) ONLY seems to be our only focus?

Please look at what the insurance company provides IF you need to make a claim....this IS the critital thing NOT the price: I have listed below some (and this is not exhaustive) things some insurance are doing to your pride and joy:

• Insurers may not use vehicle manufacture repair methods – this is compromises occupant safety and the vehicle does not perform to its Euro NCAP rating – if a second accident occurs.
• Insurers have a panel repair policy, incentivising bodyshops to repair with filler rather than fit new panels – this has both a safety implication and a negative impact on VM and Dealer Crash Parts Sales.
• Use of Non OE panels (from China) and Green Parts (salvage) – not all “pattern” parts have been designed to meet Euro NCAP crash testing specifications – it also invalidates the vehicle warranty has safety and resale implications.
• Re-use of door mouldings etc., via the application of double sided tape, manufacturer’s process dictates that new parts should be used. This comprises the aesthetics of the customer’s car, as this is not a long term repair solution (i.e. the parts will come loose/fall off!)
• Insurers also instruct bodyshops to glue or plastic weld plastic parts; this is not a permanent solution and again comprises safety, mainly to pedestrians.
• Insurers may specify the use of non-VM recommended paint products – invalidating the manufacturer’s warranty.
• Insurers may specify the use of certain support products i.e. windscreen sealant, again compromising safety and VM design rigidity.
• Write off car replacement policy – a customer may receive a competitors branded vehicle to “replace” their written off vehicle.
• Use of Non Franchise Bodyshops, i.e. nominated Insurance Approved Repairer - do they have the correct equipment and have the Body Technicians been MB trained
• Set “average repair costs” for Bodyshop repairs regardless of the size/complexity of the job, the result is a vehicle that has been repaired as cheaply as possible, comprising the total vehicle.

As I say the above is the tip of the iceberg (honestly) - just think some insurers WILL repair YOUR car in a way that: invalidates the vehicle warranty has safety and resale implications. enough said

 

[turbopete]

much of what you say may be true, but only for the older end cars, to prevent them being written off. as for replacement car, ive yet to hear of anyone having theior car replaced rather than a mediocre payout when a car is written off.

people buy the cheapest insurance as we are fed up of extortionate rates charged by insurance companies

non oe and green parts will only be used after agreement with the owner to avoid a car being a write off, and only then when the car is over a certain age. also if insurers replaced every unmarked door moulding, insurance premiums would further increase.

panel repairs are only carried out to the most minor damage (trolley dings etc where the paint has been broken) or where a part is no longer available and HAS to be repaired (classic cars etc) NOT to a door for example that has scraped a wall. if you find a bodyshop doing that on an insurance job, they should be reported to the insurance companies immediately. repairs have to be up to a certain standard to avoid warranty and other issues. failure to repair to these standards would leave insurers wide open to comebacks! even if the repair WAS done by an MB bodyshop, you would struggle to get any warranty work done on non original paint/panels

and, for what its worth, ive spent most of my working life in garages with bodyshops, or delivering to bodyshops etc. so i am WELL aware of how things work, having done a few repair jobs myself on cars ive owned!

 

[ianrandom]

Its all extortionate and really annoying. I only ever tried to claim once, when a car got vandalized.. I was horrified at how I was treated, and demanded my car back, cancelling the claim.
Since then I use an agreed valuation policy, hopefully that would help.

I've also seen two cars where the panels had apparently been replaced. I saw the bills for both cars. I had already wondered why the insurance companies had insisted on replacing the whole panels for such minor dings. One was the size of a 10p! But then when I looked I could see the filler. Outrageous, the repair shop had charged about £1200 for that last one.

 

[Shezbo]

much of what you say may be true, but only for the older end cars, to prevent them being written off. as for replacement car, ive yet to hear of anyone having theior car replaced rather than a mediocre payout when a car is written off.

people buy the cheapest insurance as we are fed up of extortionate rates charged by insurance companies

non oe and green parts will only be used after agreement with the owner to avoid a car being a write off, and only then when the car is over a certain age. also if insurers replaced every unmarked door moulding, insurance premiums would further increase.

panel repairs are only carried out to the most minor damage (trolley dings etc where the paint has been broken) or where a part is no longer available and HAS to be repaired (classic cars etc) NOT to a door for example that has scraped a wall. if you find a bodyshop doing that on an insurance job, they should be reported to the insurance companies immediately. repairs have to be up to a certain standard to avoid warranty and other issues. failure to repair to these standards would leave insurers wide open to comebacks! even if the repair WAS done by an MB bodyshop, you would struggle to get any warranty work done on non original paint/panels

and, for what its worth, ive spent most of my working life in garages with bodyshops, or delivering to bodyshops etc. so i am WELL aware of how things work, having done a few repair jobs myself on cars ive owned!

Hi Pete - unfortunately your statement of facts are not true, non of the Top 50 insurance companies will GUARANTEE to fit gen parts, even for safety related items. Research by a well known company completed this work earlier this year and exposed this fact - unfortunetly it has not come to light yet...I wonder why!

Panels being repaired by filler is the main concern, if you have visited an Insurance Approved Bodyshop...you will know this. I am not talking about shopping trolley dings either - but major panel repair.
Trust me we are just around the corner of: a major road death - cause a poor repair..DICATED by insurance company practitices not VM repair methods. All I am saying here is choose your insurer cafefully not all are the same, nor are they too expensive

 

[turbopete]

all insurance approved bodyshops i have delivered to or worked alongside use genuine parts on newish cars. after a few years they can be told to use copy panels to avoid writing the car off. given that a decent pattern panel will haveto undergo testing to a set standard, whilst it may not be OEM quality, it WILL be safe to use.

if i had a brand new/nearly new c class and i had an accident needing, say, a new wing, i would expect a wing that was a genuine MB part. as it is, i have a december 2001 c class. if i take a wing out, do i really care if its genuine? if it makes the difference between a repair and a write off, no i dont!

the problem with these surveys/research outfits is that they tend to research into the inner city high volume bodyshops where anyone who can hold a spray gun and mig weld a wing on gets a job. usually these are tied in to a dealership or a chain in some way. the places that are PURELY bodyshops and not in any way linked to any dealer network tend to do the job properly, as it often takes more of the profit through time to get a bad job to look ok as it does to just do a good job in any case. the biggest problem is the bodyshops themselves trying to boost profits by using non genuine suspension parts, for example. they do it as the insurers are so tight with labour costs and times that they have to find alternative means to make a profit.

truth be known, if every repair was carried out by VM methods in a manufacturer approved bodyshop, there would be no profit for the bodyshops, so insurance costs would go up yet further

and yes i have visited many insurance approved bodyshops. some are near perfect, some cant even fit a headlamp correctly. the ones linked to a dealership chain tend to be rubbish but bodyshop only chains i used to deliver to, did fantastic jobs

 

[duncanh]

Shezbo, thanks for your alarming enlightenment, which I am taking with a large pinch of salt.

I don't find it at all helpful, as you give us no guide to avoiding the problem. You state that none of the top 50 insurance company will guarantee to fit genuine parts.

What do we, the poor all-suffering punters, do to avoid the problem? Don't tell me it is all down to price, I just don't believe it. Prices fluctuate wildly within the same companies, based on the most minor of input variations.

If some companies are "worse" than others, how can we avoid them? Can you name companies that will not compromise safety?

Can you explain where your knowledge comes from? You work with insurance companies and bodyshops, in what role? I am interested in knowing whether you can really substantiate your claims.

Unfortunately, being aware of the problem gives me no comfort.

Remember the old saying " give me solutions not problems".

 

[drmw]

Just step back from the situation for a moment, you have purchased £40k worth of Merc and then find the cheapest cover possible. That sentance just does not compute does it?

And my reply to your earlier post:

I don't believe your argument stands up.

Based in the underlying principle that all insurance companies are a combination of cheats and liars employing as much sharp practice as keeps them (just) within the law, none can be believed.

You are implying that the more you pay, the better the result in the event of a claim. I don't think that is the case.

I have no doubt that the awful things you cite have and do happen, but who is to know what shortcuts any insurer will take when it comes to the acid test?

On that basis, I usually go for one of the cheapest as long as I have heard of them. The cheapest for my current car was Admiral - I had to cancel a SAGA policy (Aviva) halfway through as they applied a huge increase when I changed my car last week - it wasn't acceptable.

 

[Shezbo]

And my reply to your earlier post:

I don't believe your argument stands up.

Based in the underlying principle that all insurance companies are a combination of cheats and liars employing as much sharp practice as keeps them (just) within the law, none can be believed.

You are implying that the more you pay, the better the result in the event of a claim. I don't think that is the case.

I have no doubt that the awful things you cite have and do happen, but who is to know what shortcuts any insurer will take when it comes to the acid test?

On that basis, I usually go for one of the cheapest as long as I have heard of them. The cheapest for my current car was Admiral - I had to cancel a SAGA policy (Aviva) halfway through as they applied a huge increase when I changed my car last week - it wasn't acceptable.

Please read my post carefully - where have I said "buy the most expensive insurance?"

What I am saying is NOT every insurer is the same and instead of focusing on price - find a company that repairs YOUR car correctly at a competitive price.

I.e. I hawk around the usual rubbish companies and get a quote £350 for example, I them do some research and find that their are companies that WILL guarantee to fit Gen Parts and use the correct paint and repair methods..their quote comes in at £425...as far as I concerned that is a no brainer, total peace of mind for £1.44 a week. Now the above is an example and in some cases the better insurers may even be CHEAPER.

DRMW I for one would not insure with your choice of insurer for love nor money they really do cut corners...I see it every day...it is MY JOB

That is not a personal repost - I am just being truthful and trying to enlighten people, as most are totally UNAWARE that this is how (the ones on TV..advertising all the time) operate..now they cannot be trusted. Hope that helps?

 

[drmw]

Please read my post carefully - where have I said "buy the most expensive insurance?"

Your original post implied quality was proportionate to cost with the service cost analogy

DRMW I for one would not insure with your choice of insurer for love nor money they really do cut corners...I see it every day...it is MY JOB

and your job is??

That is not a personal repost - I am just being truthful and trying to enlighten people, as most are totally UNAWARE that this is how (the ones on TV..advertising all the time) operate..now they cannot be trusted. Hope that helps?

Not in the slightest. You are generous with warnings, doom & gloom. I have not seen anything by way of postive suggestion.

We are of one however on one issue - they (all insurance companies) cannot be trusted

 

[Shezbo]

Your original post implied quality was proportionate to cost with the service cost analogy



and your job is??



Not in the slightest. You are generous with warnings, doom & gloom. I have not seen anything by way of postive suggestion.

We are of one however on one issue - they (all insurance companies) cannot be trusted

Job = Motor Insurance and Bodyshop Consultant - in the industry for 28 years.

Regards doom and gloom - agree! Most insurers cannot be trusted - I AGREE however there are some that are good and you will not pay through the nose.

I would try VM schemes obviously MB, however I am not sure how they competitive they maybe - Ageas or Original Insurance are very good and should be competitive. These are know qualities, others are not, hope that helps?
FYI if Ageas or Original Insurance are not household names, don't worry they underwrite several large VM schemes like Vauxhall or JLR, so are used to "proper" repairs and warranty stipulations etc.

 

[bigasotonuk]

Hi Shezbo,
Though I have taken onboard what you are saying about the quality and standard of repairs by insurance company approved bodyshops, and the parts or lack of parts used in the repairs. Can you not insist on a bodyshop of your choice when claiming on your insurance, rather than going to the insurance companies nominated bodyshop? though i realise you might be expected to pay up front, this then would negate any concerns over any dodgy bodyshop practices.

 

[Shezbo]

Hi Shezbo,
Though I have taken onboard what you are saying about the quality and standard of repairs by insurance company approved bodyshops, and the parts or lack of parts used in the repairs. Can you not insist on a bodyshop of your choice when claiming on your insurance, rather than going to the insurance companies nominated bodyshop? though i realise you might be expected to pay up front, this then would negate any concerns over any dodgy bodyshop practices.

Hi Andy

Unfortunately Insurance Companies do not like YOU (the customer insisting or choosing) anything. They will in fact try dam hard to stop you - how:

Hit you with an additional excess usually £200 (on top of your current excess).
Tell you that you will not get a courtesy car if you use XYZ Repairers.

It is in fact your "legal right" to be able to chose, they however never tell you this and then apply the above two points. They do this to place you into one their Approved Bodyshop - so that they can "manage repair costs". Not good, have a good look at insurance companies carefully - you want your car to go to a good (suggest) VM Approved Bodyshop - these are the best ones.

 

[ChrisKnottIns]

Hi Shezbo,
Though I have taken onboard what you are saying about the quality and standard of repairs by insurance company approved bodyshops, and the parts or lack of parts used in the repairs. Can you not insist on a bodyshop of your choice when claiming on your insurance, rather than going to the insurance companies nominated bodyshop? though i realise you might be expected to pay up front, this then would negate any concerns over any dodgy bodyshop practices.

The main insurer we use will allow you to take your car to a body shop of your choice. So, if you do have a favourite garage or you'd like to send it to an MB body shop you can. The only down side is that they won't guarantee a hire car if you don't use their approved repairer - it becomes 'subject to availability'.

 

[Shezbo]

The main insurer we use will allow you to take your car to a body shop of your choice. So, if you do have a favourite garage or you'd like to send it to an MB body shop you can. The only down side is that they won't guarantee a hire car if you don't use their approved repairer - it becomes 'subject to availability'.

That is excellent - exactly the point I am making get the "right" insurer and you will be happy if the worst comes to worst...not often you can say that.

Most of the stress of an accident can manifest itsself after the bump all the hassle of claim forms - repairers etc etc. Happy customer - repeat customer!

 

[johno2004]

When i had my car stolen and there was some panel and paint damage they wanted to send me to their aproved repairer but i insisted it went to MB leicester and they agreed only thing was i could not get a car while repairs carried out unless i went to their repairer. I have found that you can choose where you want the car to be repaired you just have to tell them.

 

[Rory]

Not good, have a good look at insurance companies carefully - you want your car to go to a good (suggest) VM Approved Bodyshop - these are the best ones.

Your5 posts are still unhelpful. You said earlier in the thread "non of the Top 50 insurance companies will GUARANTEE to fit gen parts" so what are we supposed to do? When the number 1 insurer has 20% of the market, goodness knows what sort of company you'd be talking about if it's outside the top 50.


The snag with taking your car to different repair shop than the insurer wants you to is that if you have a dispute you can find yourself in difficulty. You're not the bodyshop's customer, the insurance company is, so the bodyshop will fob you off. The insurance company will say "you should have used our repairer".

 

[Frontstep]

A meaningless post without naming "good insurers"

As to bodyshops a lot of repairs are dependent on the member of staff you get as to quality.
I have had work carried out by a MB's bodyshop and the quality was poor.

 

[drmw]

Shezbo - I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, which is that you are posting with the best of intentions.

However, I don't think you are having the effect you wanted.

Your posts are patronising in the extreme.
You are liberal with negatives and at best, your postives are elusive
You were initially infuriatingly evasive about naming any insurers that would merit your approval and now you simply avoid acknowledging the questions within the posts.

I for one dislike a schoolmaster attitude and this entire post is clearly a complete waste of everybody's time - your own included.

Probably best to close the subject

 

[Shezbo]

Shezbo - I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, which is that you are posting with the best of intentions.

However, I don't think you are having the effect you wanted.

Your posts are patronising in the extreme.
You are liberal with negatives and at best, your postives are elusive
You were initially infuriatingly evasive about naming any insurers that would merit your approval and now you simply avoid acknowledging the questions within the posts.

I for one dislike a schoolmaster attitude and this entire post is clearly a complete waste of everybody's time - your own included.

Probably best to close the subject

Happy with that, however the post WAS opened with the best intentions as I see people being ripped off, having poor repairs, putting themselves in danger, having the warranty removed from their car AND the residual value being shot to bits.

I must admit I am somewhat shocked that there are so many "experts" on this site, I have only been in the industry for 25+ years...but what do I know

However perhaps the difference is when someone tells me something and I discover that they actually have credentials I ACTUAL LISTEN, because they know what they are talking about...

So feel free and insure with Elephant and Swift Cover.....I know I would not because I know what they do..if you look at the Insurance topic you will see that Chris Knott Insurance is a decent outfit as is Original Insurance and Aegeas...NO MORE FROM ME THOUGH - thank you

 

[duncanh]

I have been reading your posts and responses for the last few days, and don't feel that I have learned anything.

I know that insurance companies are not all the same, but I want DETAIL, not generalization.

I have 2 of my cars with LV Frizzell. Please give me your opinion of this company.

Otherwise your posts are of no value to me.