About G-class

[xtm]

Dear all,

Who can kindly compare the following SUV's off-road and on-road performance in your own experience, thanks :-o

1, Benz G55 AMG
2, Hummer H1/H2
3, BMW X5
4, Porsche Cayenne
5, Land Rover Range Rover
6, Volvo XC90

 

[Arnie]

Hello,

You asked about:
1, Benz G55 AMG
2, Hummer H1/H2
3, BMW X5
4, Porsche Cayenne
5, Land Rover Range Rover
6, Volvo XC90

Well, IMHO, the G is the only true all-rounder, and it doesn't need to be the AMG version.

The hummer is just too big for european roads and is really more suited to off-road (desert) conditions.

The X5, Porsche, and Volvo (..and M class) are basically estate cars on stilts. They are great on-road, but really not much good off-road, as their 4WD systems do not have proper locking diffs etc (rely on modified ABS trickery) and their independant suspension will not allow for proper ground clearance on uneven roads. (A rigid axle will lift the whole car, not just the corner)

The Range-Rover is a great all-rounder, but has questionable reliability and nowadays, is seen more as a luxury on-road vehicle than an off-road one, although it is very capable in both environments. The Air suspension has improved the the wallowy on-road ride as well as off-road ability.

The G was designed initially as a military vehicle and so is built really tough (Compare the prop-shaft diameter with a range-rover's). And, now in its second 463 version, is also a brilliant on-road vehicle with a quiet, permanet, 4WD transmission and good, taught handling.

But, everything is relative and how many people buy a 4WD for serious off-road use? They are now a fashion item.

However, in my opinion, the best all rounder (if you really want to go off the black stuff) is the G, and it's rarity value also makes it quite unusual. It's the last remaining benz that is completely hand-built. Also, you rerally don't need to consider the mad 55 AMG, other engines, and particularly the 400 CDi is much better for every day use.

Well, This is probably the last year to buy a new one, since next year, it will be replaced by the "R" series, which will be no different to the many other SUV's on the road.

http://www.g4rce.net/engl/index.html



http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/7028/links.htm

http://www.bullz-eye.com/carreviews/2003/mercedes_benz_g500.htm

http://www.autocar.co.uk/news_article.asp?na_id=212952

 

[jberks]

can't argue with a word.

 

[SLinKyjoe]

you could argue.

the hummer h1 is big monster military type job that really will go anywhere. and became the Hummer here coz we dont like the Humvee sound. i thinks its 10feet wide 2. and totaly useless except for advertising Nike stuff and squeezing films stars in or going to war in and the like. I have seen a police version on these shores but i am not telling you where. it only has 4 seats.

However the H2 is based on GM's other 4x4 with Hummer style bodywork and is around 8ft wide.(bought same as wagon width). so its bigger and more useless than what it is based on and smaller and more useless than the original. it manages to have 6 seats but only 4 that you can sit in and face forward.

I had a jeep grand cherokee limited 4l job. that was rubbish too. altho it was built buy the G-wagon people somewhere in Austria i think

For my money I would look at the new Disco LR3.

 

[jberks]

ok, if you start adding motors to the list, there's a fair few others. Based on the list, in terms of off road ability it has to the the G followed by the range rover. The others are intended only for slightly damp grass conditions. I have a cherokee 2.5D limited and thats pretty good. Good clearance, proper chassis, locking diffs etc, though to be fair, it rarely gets off road proper, and pulling bales of hay down in a muddy yard is about as agricultural as it normally gets.
I was at the kids concert last year, the car park full of the mother's 4wd disco's, M classes, suzuki things etc etc. One of them ( a 2wd nissan bus admittedly) got stuck on the playing field. Which great off roaders ended up pulling them out? Yes that great mud plugger - the mercedes E class!

 

[Arnie]

Everything is a compromise, you cannot have the best on-road performance as well as the best off-road. Just look at the wheels and tyres of any 4WD for example. The 19" alloys and slick, rubberband tyres fitted to the likes of the X5 and Cyanne would have a hard time off-road, whereas the large knobbly tyres found on a HumVee would give you serious road-holding problems on tarmac. Many of the things required for off-road use, like good axle articulation, short overhangs, high ground-clearance , soft suspension... are the opposite of what is required for good handling on fast roads, so you should decide if you want a 4WD to pose in or to really go off road.... or a bit of both, which I guess is what the question was originally about.

The new disco is still a relatively proper 4WD and I think they have managed to keep the important ladder-frame chassis. Just hope they have also improved on the build quality and reliability of the old one...

As SlinkyJoe said, the original Hummer is great of-road in tough conditions, but tests have shown it to have atrocious handling on-road. The "baby" H2 is nothing more than a look-alike built on US pick-up truck running gear.

SUVs are now a fashionable big business for the car companies but many are tarted up too much to make them practical off-roaders, but for the most part that doesn't matter as very few actually go off road.

IMOH, the "proper" 4WD that tread the middle ground well are:

Mercedes G-wagen
Landrover (RR, possibly Disco too)
Toyota (LandCruiser)
Jeep (Grand Cherokee)


As for the other popular ones:-

MB ML: One of the first "fasionable" SUVs. Dodgy reliability on early ones, but better now.


Volvo XC90: Good design and very practical for family use (designed with a lot of input from women).


BMW X5: handles well on the road, almost like a BMW 5series. Quite good-looking design.

Porsche: You really would not want to get it muddy.

 

[SLinKyjoe]

I do take the point about adding to the list. the problem i had was that the original had G 55 AMG. which seems to be the compromise for serious on road performance with reasonable off road performance. I would suggest that the New Disco would be a better compromise.

I do accept that G wagons possibly are better at both than the new disco and will almost certainly last as they are properly built but the question was flagging up G 55. which leads me to think the need is for some performance with pub flare, by this i mean a car that pretty much knocks the spots off most hot hatchs and can also be used to show that it is better off road than the likes of soft-roaders when the local know-it-all says prove it.

You wouldn't buy a g 55 for off roading in would you? More likley a defender!

I assume that is matter of taste. I would head straight for Brabus G if i really wanted performance. Or possible get Overfinch to fiddle with the Range Rover

The New Rangey Sport due out soon is based around the Disco but has a bit more class and comfort and less price than big brother range rover.

Hummers okay if you live in Las Vegas. Where, as it happens, you can higher them for the day. Along with a ferrari of SL/SLK's. Didnt notice an SLR in whilst i sold my house for some gambling money.

I do have to say I havent a clue what price G-wagons are in comparison though.
However, i am going to re-asses my original thought and suggest an Aston Martin V8 Vantage when it comes out. Stuff the off road!

ps. Got a shogun coming soon. only reason i would recommend this is that the company is paying for it.Oh and here's one. the last thing they bought us with off-road capabilty has 710BHP!! and cost £357,000. we got it stuck!!