ABS/ESP Pump Faliure

[strutter]

Has anyone experienced this problem ?...it left me with no brake pedal whatsoever, and a bill for £1,286 on a fully MB serviced 1999 E220 CDI with 88k on the clock. Tried to get some goodwill from MB as it could have killed me or someone else, but their answer was no. So much for safety/reliability, and MB servicing.

 

[landover]

Look what happened mine when this failed

 

[piestore]

esp fail

Hi

I think you need some more info as to exactly what went wrong with fault codes. ESP pump failure would not result in any loss of braking, ABS and ESP function would be impaired or non functional but it would NOT cause total brake fail. When you say you had "no brake pedal " was this solid at the top of the travel or did it go to the floor with no braking of the vehicle?

If you cannot get the correct info from the dealer get onto MB customer services and ask for the special investigations department to get involved. Contary to popular belief MB take total brake fail very seriously

 

[strutter]

The brake pedal went to the floor, and this was confirmed by the MB technician who 'test drove' the car in my firm's car park, who also stated the car was in no state to drive and had the car put on a trailer. There was brake fluid pouring out of the ABS/ESP pump unit, the diagnosis was that the unit needed replacing.

 

[piestore]

esp

Hi

sounds fair, I had assumed an electrical failure of the pump. Never seen it before though

 

[OlafMaxwell]

I had the exact same problem at about 76k, August 03. it jhappened a second time in February 04. Total loss of brakes and as far as I was concerend over here Mercedes did not give a toss. They more or less told me to get lost when I looked for a warranty repair despite the first repair carrying a two year warranty. The second dealer recommended a warrnaty repair but MB refused to authorise it so I went legal. There are more instances of this happenng, in my case it was quite sudden and hsppened on a motorway. When you lose the fluid in thre ABS/ESP locate you lose both circuits, not one as would be the case if it happened at a wheel or a brake line. This problem is very dangerous. Anyone buying an E class should look out for this.

Did you have a problem ever with the engine oil level sensor?

 

[lwlwoo]

ABS/ESP Pump Failure

My year 2000 E320 CDI estate ABS/ESP pump failed out of the blue last Sunday evening when I was in London after doing only 37,800 miles. Very disappointing experience with Mobile Life. Something that I'll post somewhere later. The car was recovered eventually 100 miles back to Somerset by RAC after nearly 5 hours of waiting by the roadside. Knackered upon arriving home at 3.30 am but at least the car and the family, with two young girls, got back home together in one piece.

Car recovered again by Mobile Life this Tuesday to a local MB dealership. Confirmed ABS/ESP pump failure and the initial quote was amounted to £1300. The dealer said MB refused to give goodwill repair or subsidise the expenses even though the mileage done was quite low. Fixed at the end for £940 because the local dealer gave me a special discount which was in the region of £400. Very suspicious offer but it helped obviously. Don't know if they have been telling the truth because apparently the pump unit comes with three quotes (one at ca. £940, and two at ca. £650) when a garage ring up MB parts with the car's chassis number. It is possible that the unit replaced only cost ca. £650 instead of £940 which could have explained the so called special discount.

Whole experience dented my confidence with MB utterly. I love the E320 CDI estate, its drive, the engine and the interior space. However, I can't get it off my mind that the reliability of MB's car is now in the likes of Alfa Romeo and Vauxhall. Some expensive failures are waiting to happen ahead.

FPM

 

[jberks]

its true, there can be some nasty surprises, though I think this affects almost every car I can think of these days. If you want some peace of mind, you can get a warranty direct warranty for around £250 (they haggle too) that will cover most of the expensive things. They stop cover at 100k but I don't think that's going to be a problem for you!
I took one out last April and it has ensured that absolutely nothing has gone wrong since!

 

[lwlwoo]

Additional warranty

Thanks jBerks for your empathy.

I thought about this idea of taking out a warranty for this sort of failures in the future. Local M-B dealer quoted that it will cause around £300 to do the pre-warranty check provided that there's no failure. It will then be about £500 per year for having an extended warranty. I think this is far too much. Perhaps you were referring to a slightly different thing or a warranty issued by a different source. Please elaborate.

Thanks in advance.

FPM

 

[jberks]

Hi,
I too was quoted £8-900 for an extended warranty. I thought this a little outragous as it was still under the manufacturers warranty at the time and what exactly do they check for £300?! I doubt the normal PDI takes much longer than 1 hour so to price the check at 3 hours work is obscene.
Anyway, have a look at these guys.
http://www.warrantydirect.co.uk/
To be fair, I haven't claimed, but they seem to be reputable. There are no checks and I got 13 months for the price of 12 as a sweetener. They do a dealer and a cheaper non-franchised option. I chose the non franchised one which pays £40 per hour labour and covers you for their 'approved' garages. I think if the worse happened I would have it sent to my local independent and stump up the £5 per hour difference.
Its not as comprehensive as the MB one, but a lot cheaper. The only fault on my car at present is the clock and temp displays, and the dash isn't covered. All the same, Gearbox, ECU, ABS, air con etc are, so the important/expensive stuff is safe.
regards,
JB

 

[lwlwoo]

Extended warranty

Hi JB,

Thanks a lot for the info. I'll have a look at the link provided and take it from there.

Many thanks again.

FPM

 

[996jimbo]

The only fault on my car at present is the clock and temp displays, and the dash isn't covered. All the same, Gearbox, ECU, ABS, air con etc are, so the important/expensive stuff is safe.
regards,
JB

I had a warranty on a previous car which I thought covered the a/c. Actually it only covered the compressor and I spent £1,200 replacing all the other bits that were faulty (actuators, fans 'n' stuff).

I wouldn't assume that all the expensive parts are covered. And even if it is covered you'll have to jump through several hoops to get a payment out of the warranty company.

 

[jberks]

Jimbo,
I take your point and who knows how straight they are until I make a claim. They seem to be one of the bigger firms though, so hopefully they value their reputation, and they have been in the press recently with repair cost reviews between makes and models etc.
For general info though, this is a list of what is covered. I couldn't see anything obvious that it missed. Seemed pretty good for £200, when a MAF sensor alone runs at £250+.
cheers,
JB

Benefits
Recovery
Car Hire
Overnight Hotel Accommodation
24 hour freephone helpline
Easy Claims Procedure
Central billing facility


With GOLD Cover all of the following parts are covered and we will pay the parts and labour costs if you have to have something replaced.Parts not specifically mentioned are not covered.

Engine
Cylinder head, internal bushings, oil pump, crankshaft and bearings, tappet gear, valves & guides (excluding burnt or pitted valves), pistons & rings, cylinder bores/liners, con rods, distributor drive, starter ring gear, flywheel, autodrive plate, camshaft drive belts, camshaft & cam followers, cylinder head gasket, cylinder block, crankshaft pulley, turbo/intercooler units, rear main seal, rocker assembly, push rods, timing gears, timing belts & chains.

Clutch
The master and slave cylinder, clutch cable and pedal assembly.

Transmission (Manual, Automatic and Overdrive)
Manual Transmission: gears, synchromesh hubs & rings, selectors, shafts, bearings, drive chains plus gearlever and bushes. Automatic Transmission: torque converters, brake bands, valve block, governor (manual & electric) oil pump and seals, drive chains, gears, input shaft oil seal, clutches, servos and modulator valve, bearings plus gearlever and bushes. Overdrive: Gears, shafts and bearings.

Front Wheel Drive Unit
Crown wheel and pinion, differential unit, bushes and bearings, plus external drive shafts, couplings, C.V. joints and rubber boots, hubs, drive flange and universal joints.

Rear Axle
Crown wheel and pinion, differential unit, shafts, bearings, C.V. joints and rubber boots, oil seal and rear hub, & drive flange.

Four Wheel Drive System
Front differential, inter-axle differential and lock, rear differential and lock, bearings and shafts, couplings, C.V. joints and rubber boots, hubs and drive flange.

Propshaft
Propshaft, universal joints, centre bearings and oil seals.

Suspension
Shock absorbers, upper and lower wishbones, bushes, springs, spheres, displacer units and wheel bearings, self levelling suspension unit, reservoir, pump and regulator valve.

Braking System
Master cylinder; brake servo unit, diesel vacuum pump, callipers, wheel cylinders, pressure regulator, ABS pump and control unit. ABS pressure reducing and proportioning valves, handbrake control cables and linkages, brake pedal assembly, self-adjusting mechanisms, abs sensors.

Cooling System
Radiator, thermostat, water pump, heater matrix, engine oil cooler, viscous fan, thermostat housing, temperature gauge, electronic control units and control linkages.

Steering
Rack and pinion, steering box, idler box, column shaft, couplings, steering column tilt mechanism, power steering unit including pump, pressure pipes and reservoir.

Fuel System
Mechanical and electrical fuel pumps, airflow meter, injectors (including injector cooling system), overrun cut-off valve, pressure regulator, sensors, throttle body, fuel gauge and tank sender unit.

Diesel Injection System
D.I.S. unit and controls, injection pump, injectors, glow plugs, electromagnetic cut-off.

Electronic Ignition
All solid state control and triggering units, where fitted as standard by the manufacturer.

Air Conditioning
Air conditioning compressor pump, condenser, electronic control unit, sensors, magnetic clutch and valves, evaporator and reservoir, fan control and sensors.

Electrics
Internal failure of the starter motor, alternator, regulator, distributor, windscreen wiper motor and tailgate wiper motor, heating fan motor, cooling fan motor, horn, central locking solenoids and motors, electric window motors and sunroof motors, electric door mirror motors and aerial motors, front and rear windscreen washer motors, headlamp adjuster motors, cruise control unit, trip computer, relays and wiring looms, rev counter, radiator cooling fan, indicator flasher unit.

Casings
Casings are covered provided they have been damaged as a result of failure of an insured part or by the consequential damage of an insured part failing.

Oil Leaks
This covers seal or gasket replacement that necessitates the removal of the engine, gearbox/drive unit and drive shafts or differential unit to carry out repairs.

 

[996jimbo]

It does look pretty comprehensive.

I know I'm a cynic but the detail of the list would worry me; I wouldn't know how many of the things listed are actually in my car, and whether there are things not listed that could still cause problems. For instance, auto box: is there anything else in the box which is not listed and therefore excluded? I suppose that ideally I'd want to see a warranty tailored for my car.

£200 does seem very reasonable.

 

[MW]

The worrying aspect of this is that braking, which is a relatively simple and efficient system, is now very complex and subject to a mass of electrical computers. ABS is fine, but in practice only comes on once or twice a year anyway. ESP looks good, but for it to work one needs to be driving as per a Top Gear driver, ie on 3 wheels. Do you really need a car that wipes the disks if its raining?
My only brake failure was on an old Talbot Solara when a flexible front pipe was abraded and cut by a universal joint rubber garter. The peddle sank 60% and the rear brakes locked up, but stopped: ie the secondary seperate system worked as planned. An old VW Polo I had had a split system in which one front and both rears always worked. 3 wheels operating is simple and a success. Why complicate it. In the aero space indusrtry, any improvement is always balanced by the worry that more complexity equals more failure points.
It is no wonder MB are not interesed. How can a world class manufacturer admit its brakes sometimes fail, and drivers are left with just hope!
It is a disgrace, and another reason why, sadly, my next car is a Toyota or Nissan.

 

[MW]

A further thought, is we have hear a useful correspondance about how a warantee system can protect fearful owners from the horrors of no brakes or the vast expense because componants have failed, or are expected to fail.
Are we talking about Rover, FIAT, Kia,....no Mercedes! Amazing.

 

[guigyk]

Hi Folks,

First post here, so sorry for resurrecting an old thread.

I've a E220 Elegance Auto (2001, 89,000miles). Recently suffered a suspected ABS Failure.

The pump seems to be leaking fluid constantly and has been diagnosed as a ABS pump failure. Being a bit short at the moment I tried to source a used part via the various online part finding sites. Although many promised, no one could match the part number exactly, so priced with MB.

Quoted £714+Vat for the pump, with £160 labour and £120 to recover the vehicle. £1120 all in.

When searching for a used part, I was contacted by an organisation offering to diagnose and attempt to recondition my part. autotekelectronics.com

Has anyone had any experience with this organisation? I'm really tempted to give it a go considering they are offering their services for as little as £40 per repair. No repair/no fee with courier charge for return of item at £15.

I'm a big believer in the motto of if its too good to be true.....

But I cant help thinking it's worth a go.

Any thoughts..

Many thanks
Kieron

 

[television]

There are others I will come back to this, and welcome to the forum

 

[guigyk]

There are others I will come back to this, and welcome to the forum

Thanks mate.

Would be interested in hearing from anyone with experiences in recon abs pumps. Just want to know if i am wasting my time, or if it is worth a go.

 

[television]

Thanks mate.

Would be interested in hearing from anyone with experiences in recon abs pumps. Just want to know if i am wasting my time, or if it is worth a go.

The other large one is BBAreman I would give them a go or the other one in the lnk, Why not