Aircon removal W124 '93 320CE to enable use of cheaper radiator

[LoveMercs]

I bought a '93 320CE which had been sitting around and had a gunked-up cooling system (the heating wasn't working and the car got very hot) and I had the whole thing flushed around Christmas. It worked fine for a while then started heating up again until I replaced the fan viscous clutch. Now that the weather is warming up the car is getting a bit hot when idling, and I'm wondering if the radiator wasn't fully cleaned out when the system was flushed.

I was thinking of replacing the radiator, and noticed the radiators for W124s with aircon cost twice as much as the ones for non-a/c cars. My aircon doesn't work, so I'm wondering if it's possible to pull it out so I can replace the radiator with the cheaper model. Does anyone know if this is feasible?

TIA!

 

[DREAMER NO2]

No reason you can not do it . But you might have internal problems with the engine that might not attribute to the radiator .Try replacing the expansion bottle filler cap .And make sure its not got an air lock

 

[LoveMercs]

No reason you can not do it . But you might have internal problems with the engine that might not attribute to the radiator .Try replacing the expansion bottle filler cap .And make sure its not got an air lock

Thanks for the reply. Do you happen to know if the cheaper, non-a/c radiator will fit in a car that's had the A/c removed?

 

[LostKiwi]

What mileage has the car covered?
They have tendency to blow head gaskets at around 100k miles.

 

[DREAMER NO2]

You need to do a little investigating on Ebay .That way you will see the types of radiators in use for radiators with, and without air con. The one type the auto box couples up on the back face of the radiator the other is coupled on the side .I do think they are all the same in size but i am sure others can help you in that one You need one for the 300e or 260 e without aircon .

 

[LoveMercs]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, back when the car overheated and chewed through several liters of water my mechanic did diagnose a blown headgasket. He flushed the cooling system and used "Steel Seal" and the car hasn't overheated or used water since, at least during the cold weather (except when the fan's viscous clutch died).

So I'm nervous about the car overheating, because when it does, it loses water and I assume this is because the pressure forces the water through the "repaired" head-gasket into the cylinders.

Ideally, I'd get the head gasket replaced, but I don't really have the funds for that at present, and what with the government clamping down on "toxic" cars (I live just outside Sadiq Khan's upcoming T-Zone) I'm wary of investing a lot of money into a vehicle that our betters may make too prohibitive to operate.

It's bl**dy annoying because the car is really solid and I've spent days upgrading and repairing bits and pieces of it... like putting a bee-sting aerial on the roof, and fettling decent speakers into the dash.

 

[d215yq]

Both my W124 petrols had no working viscous fan so I just got used to turnign the heater on when in traffic or going up steep mountain passes. In the hot weather if you have the heater on it only blows hot air out the side vents (which can be pointed out the windows) - the central ones still blow cold air.

What temps is it running on the temp gauge when "overheating"

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, back when the car overheated and chewed through several liters of water my mechanic did diagnose a blown headgasket. He flushed the cooling system and used "Steel Seal" and the car hasn't overheated or used water since, at least during the cold weather (except when the fan's viscous clutch died).

So I'm nervous about the car overheating, because when it does, it loses water and I assume this is because the pressure forces the water through the "repaired" head-gasket into the cylinders.

Ideally, I'd get the head gasket replaced, but I don't really have the funds for that at present, and what with the government clamping down on "toxic" cars (I live just outside Sadiq Khan's upcoming T-Zone) I'm wary of investing a lot of money into a vehicle that our betters may make too prohibitive to operate.

It's bl**dy annoying because the car is really solid and I've spent days upgrading and repairing bits and pieces of it... like putting a bee-sting aerial on the roof, and fettling decent speakers into the dash.

 

[om613]

Got a few new 124 rads now surplus...I'll check your model tomorrow.

 

[Flyinspanner]

I’d worry less about spending money on speakers and a bee sting aerial, and get the head gasket replaced by a competent independent Merc specialist, not a bodger who will dump “steel seal” into the system.

That was never going to be a long term solution.....and could conceivably mix with crud in your rad to block part of the radiator.

You can check by getting the car warm, for a short time, and (with engine off) feel over the rad to see if any areas feel cooler than the surrounding areas.

 

[DREAMER NO2]

Lovemercs I think that the sealers done a good job . But all owners that have had this problem would never use block sealer it blocks up other parts in the cooling system. But its the chance you have to take when you do use it . If its in the cylinder that the coolant is getting in then it would miss a little . I had a lot of trouble getting my cooling system right after a coolant change three years back,its due again this year, and i dread doing it because i know to clear all air in the cooling system is not easy ,well on my car that is. Did you refill the coolant with the heater on hot when you filled it up ?

 

[LoveMercs]

I’d worry less about spending money on speakers and a bee sting aerial, and get the head gasket replaced by a competent independent Merc specialist, not a bodger who will dump “steel seal” into the system.

That was never going to be a long term solution.....and could conceivably mix with crud in your rad to block part of the radiator.

You can check by getting the car warm, for a short time, and (with engine off) feel over the rad to see if any areas feel cooler than the surrounding areas.

Well, to be fair, the speakers cost around £100 and I had the bee-sting aerial lying around (and I did the work myself) so I don't think the £100 I spent making the sound system bearable would have got me very far with regards to getting the head gasket replaced "by a competent independent Merc specialist". I did a bit of shopping around and got quoted thousands for that job, and amount I simply don't have to spend on a car that may be worthless in a couple of years thanks to pollution legislation.

Thanks for the hot/cool spot radiator advice, though. I'll give that a shot.

 

[LoveMercs]

Lovemercs I think that the sealers done a good job . But all owners that have had this problem would never use block sealer it blocks up other parts in the cooling system. But its the chance you have to take when you do use it . If its in the cylinder that the coolant is getting in then it would miss a little . I had a lot of trouble getting my cooling system right after a coolant change three years back,its due again this year, and i dread doing it because i know to clear all air in the cooling system is not easy ,well on my car that is. Did you refill the coolant with the heater on hot when you filled it up ?

Yes, I'm pretty sure there are no airlocks in the system. I ran the car hot with the heater on full on a steep hill, facing in both directions, and gave the hoses a good squeeze.

 

[LoveMercs]

Both my W124 petrols had no working viscous fan so I just got used to turnign the heater on when in traffic or going up steep mountain passes. In the hot weather if you have the heater on it only blows hot air out the side vents (which can be pointed out the windows) - the central ones still blow cold air.

What temps is it running on the temp gauge when "overheating"

Well, because I'm concerned about the water leaking when it hits 100 degrees C, as soon as the needle starts creeping much above 78 I start getting a little nervous. My understanding - from reading around - is that if the car's cooling system is working properly, it virtually never goes above 80 regardless of traffic or weather conditions. Is this wrong?

 

[LoveMercs]

Something I'm considering is rigging up the electric fans to switch on when the temps get above 80. Has anyone tried this?

 

[LostKiwi]

The fans will kick in anyway at 90 or 95.

 

[d215yq]

Well, because I'm concerned about the water leaking when it hits 100 degrees C, as soon as the needle starts creeping much above 78 I start getting a little nervous. My understanding - from reading around - is that if the car's cooling system is working properly, it virtually never goes above 80 regardless of traffic or weather conditions. Is this wrong?

The W124 thermostats open at 85 and close at 97. The gauge on my E220s sat at 90 (horizontal), only lowering going down hill or rising after 2-3 minutes of idling/3-4 miles of uphill driving (I'm talking big European hills and often at 35 degrees). The 300D sits at 95-98 (all the time (though the viscous coupling works on this). None of these lost/lose coolant.

78 is too low for good running and should not be a target. The temp doesn't go up that fast so I'd start to get concerned at 95 if that's not its normal running temp. If you have actually put in coolant it will have boiling point of 103+ and the system should have some pressure so should be higher before it loses any. If yours has the electric fan then it might not work as I believe these were often controlled by the A/C controller/simialr wiring. If yours is like mine it has a thermostat switch on the top hose between engine and radiator. To avoid the dodgy A/C controller the PO has wired the electric fan directly to the thermostat switch on the top radiator hose (engine to radiator) and then wired it directly to the fuse box and piggy backed a fuse. Other than that on a very hot day it now stays on 5-10 minutes after swithcing off the engine as it is directly wired it works perfectly and has never drained the battery so this might solve your problem at idling and could probably be done in an hour with 1m of wire...

 

[Flyinspanner]

Trouble is, if your head gasket has blown, it will become steadily worse, and no amount of extra fans will eventually stop it from a catastrophic overheating event, where you will maybe suffer head warping, or an engine seizure. I’m very surprised that you have been quoted “thousands” for a replacement gasket - have you thought of doing it yourself? It’s only unbolting - and rebolting it, get a local machine shop to skim the head, and a gasket set. Good luck with it.

 

[LostKiwi]

The W124 thermostats open at 85 and close at 97.

Erm....? I don't think thats quite right.

have you thought of doing it yourself? It’s only unbolting - and rebolting it, get a local machine shop to skim the head, and a gasket set. Good luck with it.

This. Its not a particularly difficult job - just a bit time consuming.

 

[d215yq]

Erm....? I don't think thats quite right.

What's not right about it? All 3 of mine have always opened with 85ish on gauge and the one I bought (from merc) to replace myself had those numbers printed on it (or maybe it was 87 and 95??). Either way I was told the stats are designed to keep the car between 90 (horizontal on gauge) and 95 in normal conditions dropping to 85 on continuous downhills and upto 100 up hills/idling on hot days. It's how all of mine behaved (except for when viscous couplings went) and never had one that runs at 78 like OP is trying to do.

 

[LostKiwi]

Closes at 97????