An intesting thread from another forum

[st4]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=141&t=442266&i=40

Think twice before you bury your right foot....

 

[Dave's E55 AMG]

it's not coming up

 

[Jay Gee]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=141&t=442266&i=40

Think twice before you bury your right foot....

I do sometimes like to 'enjoy the road' and as a past 90k/year person,you do tend to believe you can pre-empt and sort of predict a potentially dangerous situation-and I think (thought) I can/could.Frightening reality reading.

 

[100%Bitch]

it's not coming up

Neither's your foot!

 

[Dave's E55 AMG]

Neither's your foot!

I trust this has something to do with the link that won't open for me.

 

[jibcl500]

Very sad story, theres nothing cleaver about driving fast when conditions dont allow, I should know I lost my license for 2.5 times the legal limit.


jib

 

[jberks]

There, but for the grace of god go all of us.
I know the feeling - looking over and thinking, hell I've killed someone. In my case I was driving sensibly at the time (for once) but the sight of a car you last saw as you hurtled unavoidably towards it, spinning around on it's roof is very unnerving.
In my case, I'm glad to say, everyone walked away, but it could have been very different.
I do think the law is an ass in these cases. The penalty is largely based on the result rather than the crime. If he'd hit another car, chances are that the police wouldn't have been interested. He'd probably done the same move dozens of times before and nothing had ever gone wrong. Wrong time, wrong place - that's all it takes.

That story is also the reason that despite being tempted, I'll never ride a motorbike. I know many bikers but I don't know a single one who hasn't had a stay in hospital as a direct resullt. They may be fun, but, and I speak as someone who straps themselves into a plastic bath tub and is hurled 1500ft into the air every weekend, it's just too damn dangerous.

 

[roofless]

remember you are only reading one side of the story ?

 

[roofless]

There, but for the grace of god go all of us.
I know the feeling - looking over and thinking, hell I've killed someone. In my case I was driving sensibly at the time (for once) but the sight of a car you last saw as you hurtled unavoidably towards it, spinning around on it's roof is very unnerving.
In my case, I'm glad to say, everyone walked away, but it could have been very different.
I do think the law is an ass in these cases. The penalty is largely based on the result rather than the crime. If he'd hit another car, chances are that the police wouldn't have been interested. He'd probably done the same move dozens of times before and nothing had ever gone wrong. Wrong time, wrong place - that's all it takes.

That story is also the reason that despite being tempted, I'll never ride a motorbike. I know many bikers but I don't know a single one who hasn't had a stay in hospital as a direct resullt. They may be fun, but, and I speak as someone who straps themselves into a plastic bath tub and is hurled 1500ft into the air every weekend, it's just too damn dangerous.

you have a bath every weekend & it gets to 1500ft you need a new plumber

 

[jubhi]

Sad story, I actually remember "10 Pence Short" on the Type R Owners forum when I had my Type R a couple of years ago. He was a well respected member of the site and always gave out good information.

I have not been on that site for a good 1.5 years now and had no idea this happened. I'm shocked to be honest.

I love fast cars and fast bikes, I generally love speed. But reading that has really made me think to a level I never would have thought about. Feel sorry for both 10ps and the biker. Being a biker also makes me think how extra careful you have to be out there.

Respect to 10ps for sharing his experience and making other aware on opening peoples eyes.

 

[dave.robbo]

I'm in the process of going through the thread. The majority of the post should be read by anyone who uses a public road.

10ps posts have opened my eyes. Much respect.

 

[television]

Just read a few pages,, I have slowed down now, using the slower speed to see how far in front the ones that overtook me are, on a five mile run, never more than 5 cars. It is not only yourself there is everyone else driving all around you,, do they understand braking in the wet,,what is their reaction time, in all its a minefield of all types, I have my fast burst like when I took the car up to the max in Germany, but in general I only drive fast as far as I can see, just a tiny lapse and mine and others lives could be changed for ever,, no thanks

 

[GseRacing]

Im 24 and i will admit i still have days when i feel invincible and i drive how i want. My third car at the age of 21 was a BMW 525 which took me about a week to learn how to control some sideways fun on a round about. Followed 20 months later by a TT which due to its handling i learnt to drive stupidly quickly down the counrty lanes on the way to work. Now i am 4 weeks into the ownership of my ML and it quite simply will not go round courners like the TT so without choice i have had to slow down on the "work roads" through the valley and it has made me realise just how dangerous i was. I have never had much of a self esteem so landing myself upside down in a verge didnt cross my mind, but unfortunately neither did meeting someone else head on as i took a corner at high speed because i wanted a pick up after a rubbish day at work.

Is it peer pressure? I dont htink so in my case. Myself and my three best mates are all serious petrol heads (gear heads for ny americans reading) and we love cars and driving quick. One best friend has a tuned Caterham, another a tuned Elise and young dave has a quick toyota and im the oldest at 24 by a good 6 months. We dont push each other to drive quick but i think being surrounded by other petrol heads does "allow" you to go that little bit quicker because there isnt that one person who isnt really interested in cars saying "hang on chaps dont you think you should shave a couple of mph off, there are other people about".

The piece about going to prison i think has come at a good time for me to read it, i have just realised i drove, and probably still do at times, like a prat and this has certainly made me think. having points on your license or writing off a car is an inconvenience to insurance but going to prison is properly scary.

I think the answer for young drivers is to do something similar to what they have in the biking world. up to 19yrs old a limit of 1.4, up to 21 a limit of 1.8 and then off you go. probably impossible to police but take it from me as a young "invincible" driver, i think its what is needed.

 

[st4]

There, but for the grace of god go all of us.
I know the feeling - looking over and thinking, hell I've killed someone. In my case I was driving sensibly at the time (for once) but the sight of a car you last saw as you hurtled unavoidably towards it, spinning around on it's roof is very unnerving.
In my case, I'm glad to say, everyone walked away, but it could have been very different.
I do think the law is an ass in these cases. The penalty is largely based on the result rather than the crime. If he'd hit another car, chances are that the police wouldn't have been interested. He'd probably done the same move dozens of times before and nothing had ever gone wrong. Wrong time, wrong place - that's all it takes.

That story is also the reason that despite being tempted, I'll never ride a motorbike. I know many bikers but I don't know a single one who hasn't had a stay in hospital as a direct resullt. They may be fun, but, and I speak as someone who straps themselves into a plastic bath tub and is hurled 1500ft into the air every weekend, it's just too damn dangerous.

The bit in bold is the bit I take issue with the UK justice system. There was no malicious intent to maim or injure and as a result morally I don't think he should have been punished with a Jail sentance. What did it acheive? Nothing, the biker is still injured.

However some say it acts as a deterent, but surely the real deterent for driving wrecklessly should be the fact that you could injure yourself and others, potentially resulting in death, not a short stretch behind bars.

I'll give another example of why I think prison is a completely useless sentance for accidental crimes like this.

Many years ago a husband of a once colleague of my mother was involved in a RTA which resulted in the death of a pregnant woman and her unborn child. Jim was driving back from the pub after having a few too many, despite living only 500 yards away from it. The woman was changing her wheel after a puncture, Jim ran into here removing her head from her body resulting in her death. he was convicted for causing death through being unfit through drink or words to that effect. He received 3 years and served his sentance in Barlinie prison. Upon receive his licenace back and getting another job it seemed Jim learnt nothing. He is back drink driving and now even drinks in his lunch break (he is/was a truant officer in our local school) and regularly uses his car for work. He still drives to the pub and gets drunk and drives back. He has been cought again for drink drive and now has lost his job.

You see therefore that prison didn't even change the error of his ways, not even the guilt (which for most people would have been enough) has reformed this lovely character. Punishing the consequence of Jims actions hasn't done any good either, but you've got to remember, his crime was only drink driving, just it went tragically wrong. I doubt also that the 3year sentance was much comfort to the family of the deceased so it also didn't act of justice to the bereaved.

If Jim has killed this person and he was sober, there would have been no legal punishment for him, so you've got to punish the crime itself, not the consequence of the crime.

Like GSeRacing I like a fast drive, and because of a mates stupidity I've been in a nasty shunt - for those of you who haven't seen them.


They were a consequence of someone trying to get it to go sideways, the hit a rock on the side of the road, lifted into the air, went through a fence and then rolled over 2 x leaving us with what you see. if another car was coming and that fence was a tree, we'd have been dead. You see that so much of it is down to luck of the draw.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Does the punishment fit the crime?

Two lorry drivers were in court on the same day recently. Each had fallen asleep at the wheel. These were 2 entirely separate incidents.

In one case, lives were lost and the driver was jailed for 5 years.

In the other case the vehicle hit a stationary object and there was damage done but no injury. The driver was fined.

It is axiomatic in the world of safety management that, when an incident occurs, it is almost never the first time that the behaviour which caused the problem (in this case falling asleep) has happened. It is equally acknowledged that where a system is out of control (truck with sleeping driver) the consequences are a matter of the play of chance.

For these reasons it is important that the potential for a tragic outcome is acknowledged and punished. The punishment should be for the behaviour, not the outcome. The outcome, after all, could be a "near miss" where no harm was done. Is the act of falling asleep therefore OK in such a case? I don't think so.

Ideally the cause, not the effect should be punished, but in the real world it never will be. So we will continue to have "accidents", which are not accidental at all. Someone has fouled up, and just been unlucky enough not to have a "near miss".

Being allowed to drive should be seen as a privilege, not a right. Once we achieve this position it will be easier to envisage legislation which would enable society to shred the licence of patently dangerous drivers. Permanently.

 

[st4]

Being allowed to drive should be seen as a privilege, not a right. Once we achieve this position it will be easier to envisage legislation which would enable society to shred the licence of patently dangerous drivers. Permanently.

They'll just drive around without licence, insurance and tax and undectable to the big brother state.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

They'll just drive around without licence, insurance and tax and undectable to the big brother state.

Well, they do already, so nothing new there. Question is, which political party or government will have the b*lls to grip such miscreants and make such misdemeanors (licensed or otherwise) really uncomfortable.

 

[GseRacing]

None, they are all far too scared of the nanny state. Hence why this country will always be filled with benefit drainers, un-licensed/insured/tax'd drivers and half the population of the middle east and eastern europe. All far too scared of being called Nazis for trying to act in the interest of the populus.

 

[jibcl500]

If anyone hurt my family through reckless driving or drink driving and should they be convicted then I would be waiting..........

jib

 

[hawk20]

If anyone hurt my family through reckless driving or drink driving and should they be convicted then I would be waiting..........

jib

What to commit another crime?