And so it begins.. tackling r230 wheel arch rust.

[LostKiwi]

Ha ! Having similar problems up ere in the north ! View attachment 59959 View attachment 59960 View attachment 59961

That looks serious!

 

[wizzman]

No other options unfortunately Alister

 

[LostKiwi]

No other options unfortunately Alister

Yep. If they get too bad it's pretty much the only option.

 

[wizzman]

Garage full of new kitchen, kitchen not ready because of skimming plaster shortage, weather dictating progress, summer slipping away

 

[Conor]

Ha ! Having similar problems up ere in the north !Had to chop a neat section out to get to an 8 inch section of rot on the inner arch. First picture is the patch I fabricated then welded in then re attached the section of outer arch neatly. The best tool for the rust is a 3M strip and clean disc used with air drill or electric drill. The discs are around 100 mm in diameter and you can get right round the back of the lip with them. Best tool for complete rust removal is called an MBX blaster but they are an air tool and £300....happy days View attachment 59959 View attachment 59960 View attachment 59961

Great work Wizz!

I agree that the best tool for the job is of the tools you mention. I found the grinder a bit too big.

I hadn't thought of a die grinder... I shoulda/coulda done with one of them instead of the grinder, but hey ho.

 

[Conor]

When I do rust repair on inner arches, the lips that stick into the arch etc, We go back to metal, then etch prime, then normal prime, then stone chip, then paint the cars colour on top.

Not had rust come back from that yet.

Thanks Alex, that makes sense and is reassuring. The main task at hand next is to ensure I don't neglect the smaller intricacies.

Rather than use U channel get it all done then give it a coat of stone chip paint.
The guy that did ours did that and it's immaculate 3 years on.

Hmm.. obviously you have had success and don't doubt it.. but what about the edge where the two panels meet? My concern is that the corners of that edge are very small and would difficult to get a good covering.

I asked the body shop about putting something behind the lip to stop muck building up. The answer was no, damp will get trapped and rust will be promoted. I was resistant to stone-chip paint as I think it looks ugly. The man has persuaded me that there is a smooth variety which will look very like the original but will be much more robust. I'll be following that guidance and hoping it doesn't look cheap & nasty.

After all this stone chip paint, I will need to investigate.

I can see the argument about trapped moisture but what if the channel is filled/built up with something robust like seam sealer. Or perhaps filled in with filler to a nice smooth edge/gradient and then covered over and sealed up with seam sealer. That wouldn't trap moisture and could be wiped clean and wax oyl'd after.

I need to draw a few diagrams of what I am thinking and get some thoughts.

 

[Conor]

What do people think of the bits I have collected for the next steps...?

I'm not familiar with the brands.. although I chose the Car Plan spec filler instead of 3M as it was about half the price.

Anything I need to absolutely not use on the car there?

I note that Alex has mentioned etch and normal primers.. but I had heard about epoxy primer in various places and Mr Clive at Benzworks said that's what they use - So I went with that.

 

[wizzman]

The car plan stuff is probably the worst thing in the picture. In any case, whatever the body filler you use, as soon as it goes off get it rubbed down and prepared and get some paint on it as filler absorbs moisture. Try to get it on in the same day. Even primer will absorb moisture which will mean all your work is wasted because it will bleed rust through. The best body fillers are usually called 2 pack stopper filler. These are nicer to apply and rub down more easily. Ask at any car paint suppliers for them. Enjoy

 

[Conor]

The car plan stuff is probably the worst thing in the picture. In any case, whatever the body filler you use, as soon as it goes off get it rubbed down and prepared and get some paint on it as filler absorbs moisture. Try to get it on in the same day. Even primer will absorb moisture which will mean all your work is wasted because it will bleed rust through. The best body fillers are usually called 2 pack stopper filler. These are nicer to apply and rub down more easily. Ask at any car paint suppliers for them. Enjoy

Whats so bad about the Car Plan? It's just speck filler? :/

The body filler is two pack, you can't see from the angle, but there is hardener or whatever, in a little tube in the lid area.

The primer is epoxy primer so not porous. I believe once that is on, it's sealed.

So.... I am thinking steps:

* BH Rust converter
* (1) Epoxy primer
* Filler - shape, etc..
* (2) Epoxy primer on filler
* Finish: Paint + Clear (Outsource to body shop)

I still need to nail down that process, but the reason for first coat of primer is to seal up my metal treatment.

 

[wizzman]

Have found some of the cheaper fillers in the past, once they go off, it’s like rubbing a piece of granite down
Sounds like your on the game anyway pal. Just get every tiny bit of rust off before you put anything back on.

 

[Conor]

Have found some of the cheaper fillers in the past, once they go off, it’s like rubbing a piece of granite down
Sounds like your on the game anyway pal. Just get every tiny bit of rust off before you put anything back on.

Ok that's fair. I will check the "Stevens" filler... you see the thing is that I don't know what the "pro" brands are. Thing about the car plan filler is that it's just for specs, bubble marks etc. It's not the overall filler, which is what the "Stevens" is for.

Good call on the granite texture though... I didn't know that.

 

[Mark A]

Worth a look at this site too, some interesting stuff.

https://www.rust.co.uk/

 

[wizzman]

Ok that's fair. I will check the "Stevens" filler... you see the thing is that I don't know what the "pro" brands are. Thing about the car plan filler is that it's just for specs, bubble marks etc. It's not the overall filler, which is what the "Stevens" is for.

Good call on the granite texture though... I didn't know that.

Here’s a couple of brands that l have recently been using. Something won’t allow me to send the images so the first is EVERCOAT EASY SAND and the other is NOVOL body filler 1000 . Texture like smooth cream and rubs down beautifully. Got my outer arch section back on now so I know l am feeling your pain !

Ok that's fair. I will check the "Stevens" filler... you see the thing is that I don't know what the "pro" brands are. Thing about the car plan filler is that it's just for specs, bubble marks etc. It's not the overall filler, which is what the "Stevens" is for.

Good call on the granite texture though... I didn't know that.

View attachment 59991 View attachment 59992

 

[Conor]

Here’s a couple of brands that l have recently been using. Something won’t allow me to send the images so the first is EVERCOAT EASY SAND and the other is NOVOL body filler 1000 . Texture like smooth cream and rubs down beautifully. Got my outer arch section back on now so I know l am feeling your pain !

View attachment 59997 View attachment 59998

View attachment 59991 View attachment 59992

Looking good. What is the silver paint for? Just sealing overnight? Will you put filler on that directly or what? I am wondering if I need to filler direct onto metal / paint or if I can epoxy prime spray first and then again after. I feel like I should filler directly onto metal, that has been keyed with 80 grit to help bite, what do you think?

 

[LostKiwi]

I've always ground back, filled, primed, painted.

 

[Conor]

Ok guys,

So an update from me. On Sunday and today I took off the rust remover, which did a great job of cleaning up. Got plenty of clean metal now.

I then spent a nice amount of time, slowly inspecting and cleaning back the areas/corners/angles where the arch meets the front skit area and the rear bumper area. Kind of complex areas but I was sure to give them attention as they could easily be fobbed off.. and would be a total shame if they bubbled in 6, 12 months time after all this work. Clean metal there now too.

There are some bits of the original sealant there in places, but most importantly it is clean to metal around the edges of both arch time to ensure no rust. I am wondering now if I need to remove all of it, or if the final bits will be safe there as they seem pretty stuck on.

For cleaning the intricate areas I used my Dremel with 90 degree adaptor which worked great. Jury is out on the bits I used, especially the wire wheels / cups. They weren't OEM Dremel though only cheapo bits. I suspect Dremel bits would be ace. In fact any of the bits I have used are good. I am very dubious about using cheap bits because of the fear of a bit exploding at 20k RPM. I'll probably be only going Dremel from now, but they are expensive and somewhat consumable for this kind of work. -- I guess a die grinder tool is what I should really be using. Next time

You will see in the pics, that I needed to use the cutting disc on Dremel to nob off a bit of this black plate that is used to mount the side skirt. The plate was fixed with a rivet and wouldn't come off. The piece I remove however, shouldn't affect it's function - I will have to eat my shirt if it does. :shrugs.

Pics, words and all that.......

To finish today, I put on more Bilt Hamer Deox Gel all over any exposed metal (just because) and the newly cleaned bits as described above.

Next up I am trying to figure out how I am going seal up the inner lip. I am in a situation where the inner arch steel and quarter panel come together and are both exposed (with a slight gap in between) due to the cutting. I think I will be using U Channel rubber to cover over along with some combination of seam sealer and filler. I will draw a diagram to show my proposal for critique, shortly.

 

[Conor]

What do people think about the remaining sealant? Is it ok there or does it need all gone?

 

[Conor]

By the way, whats the black stuff on the metal after the rust remover was washed off?

 

[Conor]

So here is something I was planning to do with the inner arch.

I forgot to add that on the internal (hidden from view) areas, there will be some kind of topical treatment such as waxoyl / dinitrol too.

Very much belt and braces, but I think it looks like a decent enough solution - I feel like the U channel is key to protected the absolute edge, because in my opinion is the ultimate flat in the original design and the most sensitive part.

Anything I can use instead of seam sealer as I don't fancy opening a tin for just than (will return it) as it seems I don't need it anywhere else.

 

[Kev555]

you get seam sealer in a silicone tube , might be cheaper


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