Auto stop start

[400ixl]

And where is evidence of issues with cam chains from the use of stop start? There isn't even loads of speculation / rumours, let alone evidence of any issues.

FUD basically.

 

[phils]

I have to say that I rarely use the stop/start facility, which may lead some to ask why bother to fix it?

Personally, I prefer to have everything in working order - I always have concerns (rightly or wrongly) that a defect in one component/system could affect something else?

 

[Gazwould]

And where is evidence of issues with cam chains from the use of stop start? There isn't even loads of speculation / rumours, let alone evidence of any issues.

FUD basically.

Just a gimmick to get the CO2 down for VED cost attraction.

The majority inc knowledgeable Merc independents ( no poll needed ) consider Stop Start to be poo poo .

From America to Australia too .

I'm glad mines not working since October .

 

[400ixl]

Oh dear, still posting those same old links.

Yes they don't like it, yes they point out it doesn't really save much, yes they point out its about manufacturers meeting emissions targets. All true.

They also state it DOES NOT create reliability issues and failures. So again, where is there ANY evidence that it causes any issues.

So I can understand people switching it off because they personally don't like it for whatever reason. But to keep saying their cars are going to blow up (exaggeration I know) is just FUD.

As with all things 20% hate it, 60% don't care and 20% like the principle. Personally I sit in the 60%, but hate it when people are fed FUD to discourage them from using it.

I leave it on 90% of the time and just switch it off when the type of traffic is going to annoy me. If you can control a brake pedal, then you can control when it activates in traffic, so rarely do I need to switch it off, just control when it activates.

 

[Blobcat]

I used it all the time in my W213, no issues other than it kept passing fuel stations...
Only had it for 48K miles so can't say long term

 

[Srdl]

I leave it on 90% of the time and just switch it off when the type of traffic is going to annoy me. If you can control a brake pedal, then you can control when it activates in traffic, so rarely do I need to switch it off, just control when it activates.

^^ +1 for me

 

[LostKiwi]

Oh dear, still posting those same old links.

Yes they don't like it, yes they point out it doesn't really save much, yes they point out its about manufacturers meeting emissions targets. All true.

They also state it DOES NOT create reliability issues and failures. So again, where is there ANY evidence that it causes any issues.

So I can understand people switching it off because they personally don't like it for whatever reason. But to keep saying their cars are going to blow up (exaggeration I know) is just FUD.

As with all things 20% hate it, 60% don't care and 20% like the principle. Personally I sit in the 60%, but hate it when people are fed FUD to discourage them from using it.

I leave it on 90% of the time and just switch it off when the type of traffic is going to annoy me. If you can control a brake pedal, then you can control when it activates in traffic, so rarely do I need to switch it off, just control when it activates.

Logic dictates wear must increase with stop start.
1. Chains are at their greatest tension when trying to open a valve from stationary. At running speeds momentum in the sprocket smooths the demands on the chain. Starting from zero all that energy to overcome the spring tension must be transmitted through the chain. On an engine with weak sprockets and or chains that can become an issue (OM651 or M271 anyone?) Indy's do seem to be seeing evidence of this.
2. Turbos don't like being deprived of oil while running - especially after high speed operation.
3. Even if the oil is hot it's not under pressure when the engine is off. Turning the engine and putting bearings under load when on a compression stroke must increase wear. Also when hot oil drains away faster than when cold and with modern low viscosity oils....
4. The more you use something the more you wear it out. Starters and ring gears (which are not lubricated by pressure fed oil) must wear more. It is possible to start an engine without using the starter (direct injection petrol only).

There are plenty of other potential sources of issues (heat soak, hot spots, heat cycles) as well.

All this is just logic. It may only be a small amount of extra wear but over 50,000 stop/start cycles it will be more wear than the same engine at the same mileage with fewer start stop cycles.
Not an issue for those who lease new and replace every 2 or 3 years but for those running older vehicles I bet it becomes more of an issue.

Start/stop is a great solution for a problem we didn't have. It doesn't accomplish much other than fudging emissions tests in the labs.

 

[EmilysDad]

..... Starters and ring gears (which are not lubricated by pressure fed oil) must wear more. It is possible to start an engine without using the starter (direct injection petrol only).

......

It could be worse ..... https://www.evilution.co.uk/886 .... the starter/alternator mounting point could be killing itself in normal use leading to lack of water pump leading to a dead engine

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

I’m becoming quite a fan of electric water pumps at least they negate the heat sink.
Totally agree with LK above, the whole engine drive train suffers additional stress/wear from employing stop/start technology, battery and alternator included. I can see the point in larger cities where emissions are sky high and from an environmental point of view you want to do your bit, but it will add wear to engines

 

[400ixl]

The whole drive train suffers wear and tear from driving full stop, no one denies that, or that stop / start may add to that wear in a minuscule way. It is again, more hearsay with no evidence to back it up that the minuscule additional wear is causing any reliability issues, yet people keep posting that stop / start is an issue for reliability. There are many galactic mileage taxi's using stop / start all the time with no issues and have been doing so for many years now.

There is NO evidence that anyone has shown to back this up theory it is causing failures. Can we just stick to facts, and the fact it is either just a like, hate or really don't care thought process people go through. Lets stop the fud in these threads saying there are reliability issues because of it, and just be honest and say its down to your preference as to whether you find it an irritation and don't feel the environmental benefit is worth it, or ethically it makes you feel you or doing your part, or really you just don't care and if its there its there.

It is a solution to a problem, for governments to show they are doing their part, and for those who feel they want to do their part. It may not be a problem you had ethically, but it is one others had. You may not agree with the solution, but emissions are a problem.

 

[LostKiwi]

If we want to stick to facts let's not say it doesn't cause failures either.

If emissions were such a problem diesel as a fuel would have been banned long ago and the government would have done more to encourage LPG and CNG.

 

[400ixl]

If we want to stick to facts let's not say it doesn't cause failures either.

If emissions were such a problem diesel as a fuel would have been banned long ago and the government would have done more to encourage LPG and CNG.

Happy with that as there will always be exceptions to a general rule.

Meeting the enforced targets on pollution levels in a way which is acceptable economically, socially and politically is a challenge which an outright ban does not support and would have had to apply to petrol as well (there was a stage where petrol was seen as the bugger evil when the measure was CO2). Hence the target date for now removing both from new sales in the future.

 

[Wighty]

Can the auto stop start be permanently "mapped out" or cancelled on Star ? Just curious even though I don't have it yet .

 

[400ixl]

I don't believe so, at least no one I have seen has said it can be. There are these other methods such as this ODB2 port connector. So the setting exists in the cars software, but doesn't appear that Star has the UI to switch it. Makes sense I guess as why would they want anyone to switch it off and not be seen as corporately responsible.

 

[phils]

I almost feel guilty now, for stirring up the debate again

 

[alexanderfoti]

Can the auto stop start be permanently "mapped out" or cancelled on Star ? Just curious even though I don't have it yet .

Yes, not on STAR though.

 

[Wighty]

I almost feel guilty now, for stirring up the debate again

Never show weakness buddy , " they" will smell blood in the water .

 

[Wighty]

Yes, not on STAR though.

Good to know Alex , I hope an E350cdi convertible will be an option in a year or so . Looks like the stop start thingy started in 2013 ish

 

[alexanderfoti]

Good to know Alex , I hope an E350cdi convertible will be an option in a year or so . Looks like the stop start thingy started in 2013 ish

No probs!

Anything with the 7G plus box has stop/start

 

[ajlsl600]

Logic dictates wear must increase with stop start.
1. Chains are at their greatest tension when trying to open a valve from stationary. At running speeds momentum in the sprocket smooths the demands on the chain. Starting from zero all that energy to overcome the spring tension must be transmitted through the chain. On an engine with weak sprockets and or chains that can become an issue (OM651 or M271 anyone?) Indy's do seem to be seeing evidence of this.
2. Turbos don't like being deprived of oil while running - especially after high speed operation.
3. Even if the oil is hot it's not under pressure when the engine is off. Turning the engine and putting bearings under load when on a compression stroke must increase wear. Also when hot oil drains away faster than when cold and with modern low viscosity oils....
4. The more you use something the more you wear it out. Starters and ring gears (which are not lubricated by pressure fed oil) must wear more. It is possible to start an engine without using the starter (direct injection petrol only).

There are plenty of other potential sources of issues (heat soak, hot spots, heat cycles) as well.

All this is just logic. It may only be a small amount of extra wear but over 50,000 stop/start cycles it will be more wear than the same engine at the same mileage with fewer start stop cycles.
Not an issue for those who lease new and replace every 2 or 3 years but for those running older vehicles I bet it becomes more of an issue.

Start/stop is a great solution for a problem we didn't have. It doesn't accomplish much other than fudging emissions tests in the labs.

xactly LK, and i dont have the time/inclination to be yanking my motor for a screwed ring gear, or starter and dealing with costs of same. and i sure without stop start, starter last maybe 2x longer , on my Aclass its an engine lower to get the starter out , not much fun on Vdoz either i am sure !! if you dont care about costs of this, i say knock yrselfs out.
i accept tech leap from starter handle to starter motor as a good move tho.. it does something i would of had to do and for 10yrs i can forget about it ,dats a USEFUL leap in tech. stop start ,in my view, unless yr the dealer,aint.