Bad or good alignment

[Bogdan Turcas]

Hello guys,

I have a problem with my car C207 E250CDI 2012 with the tracking.
Basically, with one month ago, I went on National Tyres, to fit 4 new tyres Pirelli P-Zero (2 sizes). As well, I ask for an 4 wheel alignment just to make sure my tracking is fine. (Before this, I haven't had any problems with tracking).
They did it, let say properly (apart of one wheel, right rear, I will attach a picture with what they did) but the steering wheel was not in the middle.
Because I had 30 days for a re-check, I went back to them (after two weeks) to check it and to solve the steering wheel (was just a bit orientated to the left side, but observable). Apart of this, the tracking, it was quite alright, because I took into consideration the road inclination.
From the moment when they put the steering wheel in the middle, "party" starts .
My car, start to pull to the left, much much more than before, even I drove on all types of road, to make sure about this. Since then, I visit that garage at least 5 times, each time they readjust the tracking, but car still pulls left. (They did road checks as well so is not only in my mind). The check the car on the MOT ramp to see if the suspension or articulation are problematic, but they are fine.
Today I've been to ProTyre for a check and they said the alignment is fine, in the tolerance (they haven't given me any print out), they check the suspensions, breaks etc and are fine as well.
After two hours, I've been at Chris Mullins Tyres for an wheel alignment check, and they give me a print out, and again, the toe is in the tolerance, but the camber is with red colour.
Car is still pulling to the left side.
What I can do? Because I'm worried about this and again I don't want to destroy the tyres.
My concern is, about the professionalism of the National Tyre workers or about the machine used for alignment.
As well, they said they will refund me if I want, but I really don't care about £50. Is any chance to broke something there? Because everything started after a young guy from there he put the steering wheel in the middle and I observed him that was quite confused and he went two times inside to ask for advice or something else.
Please have a look at the pictures.

Many thanks and sorry for my English.

 

[LostKiwi]

Go to Wheels in Motion in Buckinghamshire.
They aren't cheap but will sort out the problem.
They have the parts in stock to sort the camber.

I notice the caster information is missing on the printouts. This is a crucial measurement when it comes to pulling. MBs often pull to the left due to the default settings being do right hand traffic hence designed to counter the road camber for the right side of the road. When the car is on the left side of the road the setting is incorrect and the car tries to steer down the camber.
The cure for this is to stagger the caster (increase caster on one side or decrease on the opposite side). To get the car fully set up correctly requires camber and caster bolts to be fitted. These allow adjustment of the geometry which the standard bolts don't.

 

[Bogdan Turcas]

Go to Wheels in Motion in Buckinghamshire.
They aren't cheap but will sort out the problem.
They have the parts in stock to sort the camber.

I notice the caster information is missing on the printouts. This is a crucial measurement when it comes to pulling. MBs often pull to the left due to the default settings being do right hand traffic hence designed to counter the road camber for the right side of the road. When the car is on the left side of the road the setting is incorrect and the car tries to steer down the camber.
The cure for this is to stagger the caster (increase caster on one side or decrease on the opposite side). To get the car fully set up correctly requires camber and caster bolts to be fitted. These allow adjustment of the geometry which the standard bolts don't.

Thank you for your reply,

I'm living in Gloucester so I'm not sure when I can get there.
But I'm thinking, what can couse this? Because before to change the tyres, it was not pulling to any side, and after they changed, pulls just a bit (probably in that tolerance/setting from manufacturing). After they worked at steering wheel, it starts to pull.
By the way, from where I can buy those bolts? As wheel, which machine could measure the caster as well?
Thank you once again

 

[LostKiwi]

Thank you for your reply,

I'm living in Gloucester so I'm not sure when I can get there.
But I'm thinking, what can couse this? Because before to change the tyres, it was not pulling to any side, and after they changed, pulls just a bit (probably in that tolerance/setting from manufacturing). After they worked at steering wheel, it starts to pull.
By the way, from where I can buy those bolts? As wheel, which machine could measure the caster as well?
Thank you once again

If you're in Gloucestershire go to Avantgarde Automotive. Steve (the owner) is a member on here and know how to correctly set up the alignment (and carries the parts in stock). Hunter alignment machines can measure caster - I'm just surprised the figures were not shown as it's very relevant.

It's critical the steering wheel is correctly centred to the rack before starting. If the rack isn't centred then everything else will be set incorrectly. Not everywhere checks the relationship between rack and steering wheel as it's (not entirely unreasonably) assumed the steering wheel has not been moved since manufacturer.

@Steve@Avantgarde will sort you out.

https://www.avantgarde-automotive.co.uk/

 

[Bogdan Turcas]

If you're in Gloucestershire go to Avantgarde Automotive. Steve (the owner) is a member on here and know how to correctly set up the alignment (and carries the parts in stock). Hunter alignment machines can measure caster - I'm just surprised the figures were not shown as it's very relevant.

It's critical the steering wheel is correctly centred to the rack before starting. If the rack isn't centred then everything else will be set incorrectly. Not everywhere checks the relationship between rack and steering wheel as it's (not entirely unreasonably) assumed the steering wheel has not been moved since manufacturer.

@Steve@Avantgarde will sort you out.

https://www.avantgarde-automotive.co.uk/

Thank you for you reply.
I will get in touch with him and in the mean time I will find an garage with Hunter, for a check.

 

[Wighty]

Thank you for you reply.
I will get in touch with him and in the mean time I will find an garage with Hunter, for a check.

Let us know how you get on buddy . The advice given by @LostKiwi is bang on by the way . It does sound like you have been through the wringer on this one

 

[Bogdan Turcas]

Let us know how you get on buddy . The advice given by @LostKiwi is bang on by the way . It does sound like you have been through the wringer on this one

If I understand well... I already texted to Steve but the reason why I said I will find a Hunter here in Gloucester is because I want to have more papers and to be able to go back at National Tyres to chase them. In the same time, I want to know why they haven't done anything on the tracking, they said they touch and adjust only the toe....and about castor, they advice me that section is for the sport and super-sports cars.
I hope you dont get me wrong becasue when I said check, is just about check, not adjusting or repair on those monkeys from Gloucester.
Thank you

 

[Larkone]

Camber and castor issues are likely to be your problem and what lostkiwi said is absolutely correct. National Tyres are wrong and talking absolute bullsh*t - thats because they do not have the training to properly understand steering and suspension geometry beyond saying 'the tracking is correct'.

Had a similar issue on my CLS, a trip to WIM and new bolts, tracking, camber and castor all adjusted transformed the car and it stopped ripping the inside edge of the front tyres. Also cured a disconcerting shimmy from the rear on uneven bends. WIM even asked how I wanted it to drive (between cornering accuracy and straight line stability) and adjusted it to suit what I wanted. Went for straight line stability because a two tonne car is best not thrown around like a go kart on public roads.

 

[LostKiwi]

Steve uses a hunter machine as I understand it. Don't pay someone to check it yet again. Just go straight to Steve and get it sorted once and for all then go back with Steve's printout.

 

[EmilysDad]

If I understand well... I already texted to Steve but the reason why I said I will find a Hunter here in Gloucester is because I want to have more papers and to be able to go back at National Tyres to chase them. In the same time, I want to know why they haven't done anything on the tracking, they said they touch and adjust only the toe....and about castor, they advice me that section is for the sport and super-sports cars.
I hope you dont get me wrong becasue when I said check, is just about check, not adjusting or repair on those monkeys from Gloucester.
Thank you

I'd just forget about taking it back to National Tyres .... take it to Steve

 

[Bogdan Turcas]

I'd just forget about taking it back to National Tyres .... take it to Steve

Definitely I will take it to Steve.
About those 'experts' I will go there just to prove them (because they said is nothing that can be done) and to ask for a refund.

 

[Bogdan Turcas]

Steve uses a hunter machine as I understand it. Don't pay someone to check it yet again. Just go straight to Steve and get it sorted once and for all then go back with Steve's printout.

That's what I will do.
Thank you one again!

 

[Bogdan Turcas]

Camber and castor issues are likely to be your problem and what lostkiwi said is absolutely correct. National Tyres are wrong and talking absolute bullsh*t - thats because they do not have the training to properly understand steering and suspension geometry beyond saying 'the tracking is correct'.

Had a similar issue on my CLS, a trip to WIM and new bolts, tracking, camber and castor all adjusted transformed the car and it stopped ripping the inside edge of the front tyres. Also cured a disconcerting shimmy from the rear on uneven bends. WIM even asked how I wanted it to drive (between cornering accuracy and straight line stability) and adjusted it to suit what I wanted. Went for straight line stability because a two tonne car is best not thrown around like a go kart on public roads.

That's what I'm thinking about them, plus they don't have the proper technology.
By the way, how much cost you to fix it? And you buy the camber bolts or it was just from adjustment?

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Camber bolts are circa £25 each for genuine and most good alignment outfits will have them in stock but worth ringing before you go just to make sure

 

[Larkone]

Including the camber bolts (3) it was around £170 from memory

 

[Bogdan Turcas]

Camber bolts are circa £25 each for genuine and most good alignment outfits will have them in stock but worth ringing before you go just to make sure

Thank you

 

[Bogdan Turcas]

Including the camber bolts (3) it was around £170 from memory

Thank you