bang to front wheel now vibration under braking

coupefan

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Our beloved W209 had a bang on the front offside wheel / wing and ever since it has a bad vibration only on that wheel, noticeable at 40mph when braking and getting worse under braking at 50,60,70mph. It seems worse when going downhill. The vibration can be felt through the brake pedal a little but it is more of a juddering/ grinding noise and vibration.
The tyre had a slow puncture, the wheel was found to be slightly out of shape, the tracking was out, and the lower arm bush was split and pushed in. All caused by the impact in my opinion, though the insurance company are trying to wriggle out of it!

So far I have had the lower arms replaced, (£400 ouch!!) which helped a little in that you can't feel it in the steering anymore. I have had the tracking corrected (the toe was out on that side) the wheels balanced (it was out) but it is still vibrating and driving me crazy!!! The insurance company, who shall be nameless (so far!) have not paid for the lower arms, nor the tracking...so far!! ...however they have agreed to replace the wheel and swap over the front tyres and balance both. I hope this will fix the issue and Eastbourne Mercedes are doing that. John Haynes Mercedes of Worthing did the lower arms, saying they were sure that would fix it...it didn't.

I have a sinking feeling that the new wheel still will not do it....
Anyone have any ideas? I am feeling that the bang may have damaged the disc, hub or wheel bearing in some way but the insurance company say that's not possible! Is there an upper arm bush on these? Could it be the way the disc mounts to the hub? Possibly damage to the calipers? Shock absorber bent? It's a nightmare to resolve :???: There is some slight but even wear on all 4 discs, normal I would say for the age of the car and plenty of meat on the pads. It was not vibrating in the slightest before the bang....and it's only from that side....help!!!
 
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grahamcol

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I think you're considering the right things which would possibly make this happen but obviously it needs narrowing down to exactly what's causing the problem. I don't particularly like your insurance co's comments about it can't happen. I'd definitely try a different wheel (the spare ?) on the corner where the bang happened. It would be good to get a gauge and measure the disk run out with the wheel off. You can get an idea just by placing a screwdriver blade almost touching the disk and spinning the hub whilst watching any variation in the gap.
Good luck.
 

onefortheroad

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Is this from cold ? Try just say putting the brakes on the smallest ammount and you feel a warping/buckled effect like a bent cycle wheel. Would suggest a bent brake disc .its possible the pads might even of been shattered. You also could jack up that wheel and spin it by hand and have a listen and feel for any noise and high points that grind.
 
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coupefan

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I think you're considering the right things which would possibly make this happen but obviously it needs narrowing down to exactly what's causing the problem. I don't particularly like your insurance co's comments about it can't happen. I'd definitely try a different wheel (the spare ?) on the corner where the bang happened. It would be good to get a gauge and measure the disk run out with the wheel off. You can get an idea just by placing a screwdriver blade almost touching the disk and spinning the hub whilst watching any variation in the gap.
Good luck.
The spare is a space saver though so I don't think that will help much. However the insurance is paying for a new alloy and tyre swap over, so I may as well do that. It's what to look for next if that doesn't fix it! It really spoils the enjoyment of a car that used to be a real pleasure to drive :-(
Might it be worth them removing the disc to see if there is a broken spacer or some damage where it sits on the hub do you think guys? The vibration is there from cold, yes...
 

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The wheel was found to be slightly out of shape. Therefore, I'd wait until it's been replaced before looking for other causes.

I don't think disc or hub damage is very likely and there's no 'spacer'.

Bearing damage should be easy to feel or see, it only take minutes to remove the hub.
 

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As above, don't create a drama out of a crisis...wait for the wheel change.

Or continue wringing your hands.
 

SL63 Mark

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On my SL, both front wheels were out of shape after hitting various pot holes. That caused a nasty vibration back through the steering wheel at ahem mph. If the wheel is out of shape it is easy to tell, and must be eliminated before trying anything else. Unfortunately the simple things are often missed, leading to worry about stuff that may be fine. Modern alloys seem to bend easily, at least Merc ones do.
 
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coupefan

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I am just trying to prepare for my visit to the dealer. As they will have the wheels off wouldn't it be wise to check the bearings or other possible causes? It certainly feels like it could be bearing damage...although would that cause vibration under braking? How do they check that...do they have to remove the disc? Many thanks for your help guys.
 

SL63 Mark

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It certainly feels like it could be bearing damage...

Ask them to check the bearings if you are worried. You can do it by listening for rumbling or screeching noises, and wobbling the wheels by hand to check for play. It is easier with the wheel on, in my experience.
 
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coupefan

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A new wheel didn't fix it...it drives better under normal load but under braking it is just as bad. The mechanic had a look and we span the offside disc...it's catching in one spot on every revolution. Bent disc. The nearside spins freely as do the 2 rears. Now as the wheel was buckled, balance out, tyre went flat (though no puncture...just knocked the seal on the rim) tracking was way out and the lower arm bush was pushed in...seems to me that this was a direct cause of the accident. The insurance company have said, so far, a bent disc cannot have been be caused by the accident as the wheel would absorb the impact! They don't want to pay for a new disc......though they have kindly covered the wheel and said they will pay for the bushes and tracking/balance etc....seems I will have to battle further !
 
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umblecumbuz

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Or bite the bullet, buy yourself a new disc, and move on.

Get several quotes when insurance renewal time comes, because your present insurers are certainly not philanthropists!
 
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coupefan

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Well, because of the grief I have had so far I would like them to replace the disc....the pads will need changing as well and fitting isnt cheap (anyone know a good brake Indie in the South East UK?). If they had spotted that in the first place it would have been a simple fix for them. Does anyone else think they are wrong when they say "a warped disc can't be caused by impact to the wheel". I know it was perfectly fine before....and the brakes were on when it was hit, so surely some of that energy can transfer through the wheel and/or calipers into the disc?
 

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You cannot deform cast iron with a blow, but you can dent it. An alloy wheel could not damage it either, as it is a long way from the disc.

This just is not easy, one could maybe think that if the disc surface was not really clean when the disc was last changed and the changing of the wheel or the impact of the pot hole gas re seated the disc and that is now running true but the disc has worn out of true.

you do not have to replace the pads if still good when changing the disc. The pads just need to be checked on how they have worn.
 
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coupefan

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The alloy is extremely close to the caliper with this model....and there looks to be a mark on the caliper. Maybe it was caused by friction from driving with a bent, misaligned wheel, falling tyre pressure and damaged lower arm bush? Either way the noise and vibration to the offside was not there before the accident...
 
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This just is not easy as you have found out. The caliper is mounted on very strong cast mountings, bolted to the hub. The actual caliper in insulated from the disc via the pads. If the caliper did move (bounce) the only part of the disc it could touch would be the outside edge as the gap here can be tiny.

If the disc did get a bang from the caliper, the dent would and could only be on the outer edge, and one could check this by having a pointer up against the disc and then rotate the disc, it there is just one high spot on the outer edge this could be filed off, again this can only be on the outer part of the disc and it could be the inside or the outside
 
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coupefan

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Thanks for your kind reply, surely though, if the brakes were applied at the time of impact and the wheel and/or caliper took a bang this could have caused some kind of disc damage or misalignment? Can anyone recommend a brake place, south east? The parts are not very expensive online but I am not able to fit them myself....and pretty skint since all of this!
 

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The easiest way out of this is to have the disc skimmed (re ground) it does not cost much to do.
 

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Odds on some muck/rust/flaky paint etc has been dislodged behind the disc and the mating face of the hub flange when the wheel was removed. Remove the disc and clean the mating face of the hub flange it bolts too. The more you drive with the disc rubbing on the pads the greater the wear on the false'high' spot of the disc, making the cure seem 'just as bad' as you will have worn the disc out of true..ie flat, and you'll still need to buy a new disc, so do it sooner rather than later!

Highly doubtful you have a true buckled disc, you may have ..but thats a big lump of cast iron and cast iron tends to crack before bending. So clean the mating face on the hub with a flat file or similar first before anything else. Do it yourself or get a mech to do it in about half hour tops.
 

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Wheel damage can cause all sorts of problems, Proper checks must be done, Stub axles bend as does suspension parts, discs can be out of true , and for their cost, replacing them isnt a big problem.
Take your car to a dealer or an approved bodyshop and let them deal with the insurance company.. they wont argue with the garage decision.
 

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