Best engine mileage - discuss

[jberks]

Everyone wants a new car and many swap out after 3 years. However, having had new and used motors of different types over the years, the conclusion I keep coming back to is that most cars actually improve as the mileage clocks up and those who buy new every 3 years actually have the worst car with the highest depreciation cost. Those of use coming after get the better car at the lower cost.

I've just gone over 25k. Still pretty low but since I first collected her 4 months and 8k ago, she seems smoother and more powerful. The 240 seemed to have a noticible improvement at around 50k. The old man had a cavalier td with 220k on it. Sure the body had all the structural rigidity of a Sainsburys carrier bag but the engine was sweet and still had plenty of go. I bought a new Audi A3 turbo. It blew up the next day and they lent me a used one with around 55k on it. When I got the replacement car a few weeks later, it was a disappointment. Not nearly as lively or fun. After 3 years and admittedly only 15k it still hadn't come close, then the lease ended and we got another one - same story.

So, whats the best mileage on an engine. (and I know there's no actual answer to this one but I thought the discussion might be interesting!)

 

[maldon]

Our old W124 with 145k never ever missed a beat. If it were not for my miserly ways leading to the A/C packing up I would have kept the car for my own use.

As for improvement - i've 12.5k on the ML now and the engine seems looser, more powerful/responsive than when first got it. Am convinced mpg is better (although have gioven up on Sains diesel).

 

[tom7035]

Everyone wants a new car and many swap out after 3 years. However, having had new and used motors of different types over the years, the conclusion I keep coming back to is that most cars actually improve as the mileage clocks up and those who buy new every 3 years actually have the worst car with the highest depreciation cost. Those of use coming after get the better car at the lower cost.

We 'oldies' have of course appreciated this for generations.
When I was younger a new car, even if I had able to afford one, was never at the top of my list as I also knew I'd not be able to 'tinker' with it. It may seem strange, but it was the smell of a car which atrracted me to it coupled with just about the only other two considerations of the time - 'how much oil does it use?' and 'does it jump out of third gear?' As for the smell, the interior of 90% of them were finished in wood and leather and add to this the faint smell of motor spirit (which later became known as petrol!) and I was in my element. As I said, I could be strange! I never came to love the smell of plastic and 'xmas tree' fresheners!

 

[clive williams]

My 500E has now passed 352k km (220k mls) and is still a good'un. The E320CDI has done 105k mls and we are looking towards 200k mls in that.

I've been down the route of new company cars (never my real choice of vehicle) and bought new and generally since then I have discounted new vehicles because:

1) I prefer GOOD quality vehicles and the only ones I can afford are 3/4/5 yrs old
2) The new vehicles I can afford have lasted much less time than I have experienced with the quality choice. What condition will a Ford Focus say, be in in 5yrs, 100k mls especially if I've driven it in the usual fashion? The equivalents in the past have not managed to stay the course.
3) Owning a new vehicle is IMO a frustrating experience. a) It usually needs debugging. b) It has to be serviced by the stealerships during the warranty period - an expensive/frustrating/time consuming exercise. c) I dare not tinker/fiddle/tune/customise for fear if invalidating the warranty.
4) I travel on average 20,000 mls per year in one car and 5,000 in the other (the wife racks up the rest), I need a car that will take me long distances in comfort and as stress free as possible. Experience has told me this can ONLY be achieved in large, powerful and comfortable cars. Using smaller/newer cars affected my ability to conduct my business in the most effective manner when I arrived. Putting it bluntly, I was generally knackered!
5) I am personally not a snob but some of my clients and fellow professionals are and turning up to a meeting in a quality car establishes your position in the corporate pecking order and greater respect is usually given.
6) I prefer to buy vehicles that are interesting and unusual in the company carpark. That usually involves some of the more expensive vehicles (ie high new list price). The 500E is a timeless/classless classic in that respect.

When the 500E reaches the end of the road or the retirement home then I have already resolved my next purchase - a used Porsche 911, a childhood ambition unless of course I source a Brabus SL500/600 - ah! dreams.

Clive

500E
E320CDIT210

 

[davebox]

I have to agree with all that's said above. I have always wanted an older Merc but the misses wanted the Newer Shape C Class, OK I could have found an older one than the 04 C220 CDI I bought but I like to think that because I managed to get it at 18 months old from the dealer that owned the car (It was the dealers accountants car) I had a good deal and although he car has not got a high spec (Classic) I like it, the wife loves it and with only 9K on the clock when purchased, it should last for years. I also have an 01 plate Astra DTI that Ive owned since the car was 8 months old with 16K on the clock, it now has 53K on the clock and has been serviced well (every 6K, even though Vauxhall say 20K or twelve months) it runs as well as any Vauxhall (you cannot compare it to a Merc but it serves its purpose). I will only consider changing the C220 for an ML, but that will not be for a couple of years and even then I may keep the C220 and look for an older ML to add to the fleet. (I have to consider getting a bike before this happens - well I want to get a bike I should say). Overall I'm glad to have bought the Merc, A great mile muncher and with the cruse a doodle to drive on the motorway.

 

[Stulc]

I too aggree with all the above....especially what Clive said, I to prefer good quality than "run of the mill", and having had many over the years of all shape's and sizes I tend to keep with big car's, as there more spacious better built (usually) ect ect.

Also (like Cilve) I'm the 3/4/5 year's old bracket, my current C280 is at 92k, but my first "big car" (Saab 9000 auto fpt) had 196k on it and run like a swiss watch. I dont do that many mile's a year but I have got used to the comfort ect of the bigger car.

I really dont think I would spend lot's (20k +) on a new car, because 1...I dont know just how long I would keep and probably loose a stack on it......2....as stated above for the "loosness" of the engine's, teething problem's ect ect. Hopefully by the time it come's down the line to me a few thing's have been "seen to"

 

[television]

Its the same with my SL320. to pay £68k for a toy with every extra, never. I bought it 4 years old for £22k with 35k miles, with my max is 5k a year so the depreciation will be almost nil.
Same with my V70R, the highest spec car that Volvo have made,That was £38k new I bought it from my best friend for £14k with 20k miles, I am now up to 70k miles now with outlay of £55 for a antiroll link. the Cam belt I had changed at 45k rather than wait till 80k just on the grounds of playing safe, plus a few tyres that I do not count. I have done my own service and change the oil and filter at half the recomended. I knew that I was going to keep it a few years so a stamped book is of no importance to its value now, it is still mint both inside and outside
Like Tom I hate plastic and have never had it, always wood and leather and silence.
Being self employed all my life (no one would employ me) I have had to think of pensions, luckily I was able to pay off my mortgage back in 1970 when I had a super trading year, but all things come to an end.
In my case it is not what I have saved, its what I have not spent.
The man next door bought his new c220 the same week as I got my SL, I take him to MB to pick it up, but he never has to take me, if I ask what was wrong, the answer is always the same "I don't know"

Malcolm

 

[clive williams]

One thought that we have on car ownership is that we tend to keep our cars for a long time ignoring the car trade's advice to change every three years. The last one we had was an Audi 80, which we bought through the trade 10 years ago for £7000 and sold for scrap last Autumn for £200 = £680pa depreciation. Over the period the replacement repair bill exclusive of consumables was around £600 and I don't consider it to be particularly reliable. Therefore, the depreciation/repair was £740pa. I can't think of any new, comparable car that would give me a similar result just on depreciation alone.
We had 110Kmls with the Audi (174k mls on the clock), it was a joy to drive especially, with uprated suspension and blown cats. Unfortunately, the kids outgrew the rear seats and it developed a gearing problem on hols last year otherwise it had another 50k mls at least in it. Apart from a crease in the galvanised rear door it was a good looking car.
I suspect that the trades advice to change cars every three years is borne by the need to maintain new car sales rather than any efficacy in the arguement.

Clive

500E
E320CDIT210

 

[Kallisti]

On the other side of the coin, for arguments sake.

If you're going diesel, a car from before 1998/99, or sometimes more recently is a significant step back in technology. They're getting so much more refined and powerful now that newer will often pay dividends.

That said, I'd probably never buy a car that didn't have 20k on the clock. As someone else said, get someone else to debug it for you, and pay the top whack depreciation.

I'm in the same boat as many above. Just come out of a Toyota Landcruiser Amazon 4.7 V8. It's a magnificent car. New is close to £50k, I got it for about £23 after it turned 3. Customs and excise are the only reason I've hopped out of it.

E320CDi was the only real option I could see where I kept kiddie carrying abilities (the extra seats cost when they're new, but not really when it's second user) and had some space to chuck things in the back.

 

[SLinKyjoe]

any new car is a step forward. very few manufacturers put something older in the newer cars!

put this is how i see it.

i buy new for 2 reasons. 1, i get to choose the whole car, and 2, i get the new car back up! to be honest, walking into a dealer having spent £50k and getting the issues dealt with is easier than getting the used car man to take a look at it for you! that said, a £50k car shouldnt have a problem so when it does i kinda gets you annoyed. but i dont know much about cars and how to fix them so i tend to steer clear fs cars that may have the odd, DIY fixable problems coz when i finish with it, it will have several problems!

but i do have 2 cars. the other one was £1000 and had 58k on it. it can fall apart if it wants. its just for biffing around in. but i made sure that when i got it, it had a full service, MOT and cam belt change which in paid for, so that it didnt keep breaking down. it is due an MOT end of april, and will get a lesser service than last year, no brake fluid change and coolant change this year, but it needs new brake pads and disks on the front.

to be honest it costs, including insurnace, road tax and petrol, £1750 a year to kept on the road. if it lasts 5 yrs and i scrap it, it will have depreciated at £200 a year! so thats 5 years motoring for under £10000. (£141 for 4 tyres)

The slinkymobile will lose that in less than a year in depreciation alone!

so the best mileage to me, is what you can afford. if you want new, you have to pay, if you dont want to pay, you have to buy 2nd hand and you choose. if you want quality but cant afford a merc, you have to wait for a merc to come into your price. but you will always get someone saying when you buy a £20k 2nd hand car, that you could have bought 2 focus's for that! its normaly the same person who then goes on to say they would never buy anew car coz you lose too much!

Horses for courses. If you want as new SLK55AMG you have to buy it, if you just dream of one, you have to wait till they are a few years old and you can afford your dream.

how many old fiestas, focus, astras etc do you see with 100k+ on them. and how many mercs do you see, looking almost new with twice that? some build a car that will last, some build a car thats cheap. the cars that last become cheap over time. cars that start cheap dont last!

either way, you can't take your money with you, so you can save it up or use it to live today!

 

[television]

either way, you can't take your money with you, so you can save it up or use it to live today![/QUOTE]

There is another side to it, wages or earnings in this last few years have changed dramatically, whilst I have always been in a High tech job,and have done well by many standards, my sons have too,but they earn 100k plus a year in the computer world. When the accountant says you can have a new car or pay £30k tax,most people take the car I have loved every working day in my life,and never taken one day off for sickness, so here I am at 71, trying to wind down.
£70k in the bank pays a max of £245 a month, but if I spent it on a car, its gone for the best part forever. Yes the new SL is very nice, but there is a new face lift version coming out in April, How sick do you feel if you had bought one today. So to avoid that conflict within myself I bought a 99 with everything. I bought it for what it is,and that pleases me, I love every minute that I sit in it or drive it. Yes all the motoring press said how dated this one looks compaired to the new, but I love mine for what it is.
A recent survey showed that most peoples dream car was the one that was around when they were 14 years old. To me the old SL's,CE's and coupes still look nice. Having had so many top end cars in my life, it has to stop somwhere.
You can put it on a level with your wife, you can go and swap her for a newer younger better looking model, the initial depreciation is ½ what you own, and the up keep of the new one is going to be higher than the old one.

RE cant take it with you, no cant do that, but I do love what I have got.

Malcolm

 

[Stulc]

You can put it on a level with your wife, you can go and swap her for a newer younger better looking model

And I'm quite sure there's alot of wife's out there saying the same thing....

 

[television]

And I'm quite sure there's alot of wife's out there saying the same thing....

There sure is, still cost you 50%, Better to look after and service well the one you have got.

Malcolm

 

[Stulc]

Very true.....

 

[NewMB]

I agree.

Use it all up and enjoy life!

That is the reason why I go for a new car. THe fact that you are the one who can choose colour etc is one of the perks.

Unfortunately, all new cars depreciate at an alarming rate the first year..... some more than others.

 

[SLinKyjoe]

the old one.

RE cant take it with you, no cant do that, but I do love what I have got.

Malcolm

thats my point exactly. you are using it to live today......you work hard all your life and now you enjoy it. how you choose to spend it doesn't matter. the fact is, you chose to spend it on something you want while you are still able to enjoy it. therefore...you are living life today!


or you could leave it in the bank and look at your bank statements once an month....now thats really enjoyable, that is!!! imagine a V8 bank statment!

 

[television]

!


or you could leave it in the bank and look at your bank statements once an month....now thats really enjoyable, that is!!! imagine a V8 bank statment![/QUOTE]

Its not like that when you are self employed, you start off with a cardboard box where you put the days takings and count it before you go to bed,every night. This goes on for some time, the only snag is that as the box fills up, it takes longer to count, eventually half of your day is taken up counting the money, that in turn shortens your working time and the whole process slows down to the point that you have no time to work. This is the point at which I bought the MB, that's OK because I would rather be out in the MB than working = Changed my life

Malcolm

 

[psmart]

Jberk started an interesting discussion, my side of the coin balances out what other members have been saying:

Buying old, because its what I could afford for what I wanted:
1. I always bought 3 year old cars, Rover SD1 3.5VDP, MG Montego Turbo, RS-Turbo, Sierra 20iGhia, Sierra Cosworth. All in the 30-40K mileage bracket, except for the Cosworth, which was 19K with history. I treated the Cosworth with kids-mits, putting it into a warm garage, on stilts on my long trips away and drove it very little (30K when I sold it 3 years later).
Each of these cars cost me dearly, the Rover (last time I did my own grease-pit-monkeying) was with the dealer 6 out of 12 months and I personally had to strip the head and replace gasket Christmas Day to get back to work), the MG went thru 3 engines (yes 3), the RS-Turbo blew a 'box, the Cosworth used 2 turbos, head gasket, water pump etc (and this was because it wasnt been driven!!!). On average, its cost me 10G per year to own an 'old' car with depreciation and maintenance.
I hear the comments.... you should have bought a Merc, and your probably right, but with 10-12G in my pocket, a quick Merc was out of the question in those days!

Buying new (because I no longer needed speed, just reliability):
1. Leased a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD for 3 years, with a 400-500 maintenance bill every 6000 miles (or 6 month). Cost per year approx: 7,500. Returned to leasor with 44K miles, and had no faults.
2. Bought a brand new ML270CDI and in 5 years, its covered 55K, no real issues and approx cost per year: 5,000 (depreciation and servicing).

I hear the comments already, 'should have bought Merc', but in answer to other members posts, buying 3-5 year doesnt pay unless you can afford a 'cheap class car' that fulfils your requirements. Mercs arent cheap, to buy or maintain, so there out of most pre-30 year olds range. And as for a fast Merc which could beat a Cosworth for 12G?

So, from what members have been saying, and my own experience, if your going to buy old, buy a Merc. If your going to buy new, buy a Merc. And from my friends family cars (farmers, who own Mercs), to quote, 200K is just the beginning of its life! My 5 year old ML has 55K and feels as fresh as a daisy, still turning 120mph regularly on the autobahns (sorry guys n gals, it is legal out here... and Im one of the slo-coaches)!!

 

[OlafMaxwell]

I have had an interesting experience with the car from new. now its has 110k and will be 6 years old in May.

So, if I chnaged it at 3 years....well, that would have been in 2003. The 2003 models were full of bugs so I would have had a litany of trouble with the new car. So, I would have had a lot of frustration.

In the first three years with the W210 it had a string of troubles, failuers, breakdowns etc. Within the fourth year it broke down in second week of February and the tow truck had, in the fifth week of the year already towed 4 2004 models, ie all less than 5 weeks old!!

Sure, at 6 year sold I am probably facing the usual auto transmission problem but i seem to have had all of the others. From 75,00o miles onwards it has behaved pretty much like a new car with few problems. So, I feel a new car will hammer me in depreciation and still cost a fortune in repairs. There is no argument whatsoever in favour of buying a new Merc because you get the depreciation and still get expensive repair bills because everything is wear and tear.

The advice, like some others have done, is buy at about 4 years old, after all of the problems have bene identified, make sure they have been fixed and with good service history and then get a good independent dealer to maintain and service it.

 

[psmart]

Speaking with some 'older folk', never buy a new car which is fresh on the production line with any of its major components (car, engine, 'box etc).
Buy at the end of the line, just before the 'face lift' or 'new model'.

Wise words, has anyone bought at the end-of-the-line and got something to moan about?