"Better" Fuel

[Miffy]

The owners manual for my car says that I should only use normal Unleaded in an emergency and that I will suffer loss or performance and MPG whilst using this fuel type.

Hmm, just had a read of the manual, very confusing.

for the clk200 it says en228 98 ron Super Unleaded and 95 ron Unleaded in an emergency, but for all other engines its en228 95 ron Super Unleaded, and 91 ron Regular Unleaded in an emergency

 

[teddycatkin]

When we opened our 1st garage in 1960 -it was common place to add redex in "Shots" at the pumps "2 gallons of super and 2 shots" was a regular request--I remember we only charged a penny per shot - but it was customer service that counted !!-thats when the customer didnt need to get out of the car- now you do it all yourself and pay top whack for the privilage ? Have we gone backwards since then I often wonder ?

 

[Seeker_UK]

Hmm, just had a read of the manual, very confusing.

for the clk200 it says en228 98 ron Super Unleaded and 95 ron Unleaded in an emergency, but for all other engines its en228 95 ron Super Unleaded, and 91 ron Regular Unleaded in an emergency

The UK is one of the few places in the world where Super is 98 and normal is 95. Seems they didn't take this into account when making the manual for the UK version.

The only cars which would ever need 98 to run all the time would be real exotica like AMG 63s, Lambos etc etc.

 

[television]

The UK is one of the few places in the world where Super is 98 and normal is 95. Seems they didn't take this into account when making the manual for the UK version.

The only cars which would ever need 98 to run all the time would be real exotica like AMG 63s, Lambos etc etc.

I agree 100% with the above, its all correct

 

[Miffy]

Sooooooooooooooooo, is Super Unleaded 98 or 95 ron? lol. guess Ill save some cash and just get normal Regular Unleaded in future

 

[television]

98 ron is super, 95 ron is regular/ normal, and what most of us use if we do not like wasting our money

 

[Seeker_UK]

It's not a waste but at the same time there's no financial benefit either.

Most cars are designed to run on 95 RON but if you use 98 RON, there's less knocking; timing can be advanced and this usually means a more efficient use of the fuel and thus MPG goes up.

From what I've observed if you fill up with £20 of super, you get exactly the same mileage you'd get for £20 of regular.

 

[television]

It's not a waste but at the same time there's no financial benefit either.

Most cars are designed to run on 95 RON but if you use 98 RON, there's less knocking; timing can be advanced and this usually means a more efficient use of the fuel and thus MPG goes up.

From what I've observed if you fill up with £20 of super, you get exactly the same mileage you'd get for £20 of regular.

Well if there is no benefit, then it must be a waste, I tried it twice in my SL500,,it cost £12 more to fill it but not 1 MPG saved, no standard MB has any problems with poor detonation.

My 124 300TE never pinked on 91 ron and that was without moving the trimming plug

 

[sailorP]

I work for one of the oil majors, used to work on oil tankers (ships, not lorries), both for the independents and for the majors, so I have some knowledge of the pitfalls in the industry.
As you have all heard, the majors all share the same product, just have slightly different additives. BP used to make most of the petrol sold in Scotland, at Grangemouth, most of the fuel on the South Coast comes from Esso at Fawley, Total and Conoco-Philips on Humberside, Shell at Stanlow, Chevron and Murco at Milford Haven etc etc. There's no sense in, for example, Esso trucking or shipping fuel to Glasgow when they can buy the product from BP, have them add the 'Esso' additives in Grangemouth, and buy it there. Esso then do the same for BP in Fawley, and everyone's happy, because the competition in the system ensures that you, the UK customer, gets the cheapest fuel (pre-tax of course) in Europe. (Honestly, it's true. European anti-competition legislation, and system effiicency, makes your fuel the cheapest in Europe...Government taxation policy does the damage...but I'm preaching to the choir on taxation I'm sure)...anyway...
The additives all do the same thing....keep the engine clean....and are pretty much the same from major to major. I've added them at sea, on a ship chartered by one of the independents. It wasn't a high precision operation!
So it doesn't make much difference whose 95RON you buy, AS LONG AS YOU STICK TO THE MAJORS!!!
The reason you should stick to the majors?
It's all to do with how well the product is looked after (much like the beer at your local pub!)
There is a much lower probability of a product qualty issue when you buy from the majors.
Supermarkets buy their fuel on the spot market, shipped in from goodness knows whose refinery (Estonia, or St Petersburg, or Izmir..anywhere....!) in goodness knows what age/quality of ship...(You fancy some seawater in your fuel sir?)....
The majors have a much tighter control of shipping quality and product care throughout the whole supply chain, from refinery, to tanker, to lorry, to fuel station ground tank, to pump. We occaisionally get it wrong, but not very often, and we do a far better job than the people who buy brocoli in bulk the same way they buy petrol. We benchmark, so we know!
For example, you wouldn't believe the quality humps we are going through right now with the intricacies of carriage of bio-diesel, and its residual effect on jet-fuel and gasoline cargoes. I bet the lassies who buy the fuel for the supermarkets wouldn't understand the chemistry, let alone what to look for. (I've a feeling I'll get flamed for this, but hey-ho, I'm proud of the care we take).
I've worked at sea for the independents, and the majors, and I buy my fuel from the majors, just because of the product quality. I wouldn't want any thing nasty in my engine thank you very much.

98 versus 95? I reckon driving style makes more difference. It is recommended for some high performance engines (Honda S2000 springs to mind). I bow to the engineers on whether 98RON gives more power. Theoretically it does, but whether (1) it will make a measureable difference and (2) it will recoup the extra cost, I doubt it.
For what it's worth, my 2p on fuel.
Phil

 

[Seeker_UK]

Well if there is no benefit, then it must be a waste, I tried it twice in my SL500,,it cost £12 more to fill it but not 1 MPG saved, no standard MB has any problems with poor detonation.

My 124 300TE never pinked on 91 ron and that was without moving the trimming plug

Well, it can give the engine a good clean out esp. if you don't want to mess about with redex. But that's about it......

 

[television]

Well, it can give the engine a good clean out esp. if you don't want to mess about with redex. But that's about it......

I agree with that completely, and that is why I put it in every now and then, its easier than messing around with additives, plus I would never remember

 

[popuptoaster]

The only cars which would ever need 98 to run all the time would be real exotica like AMG 63s, Lambos etc etc.

My w114 280ce is s'posed to run on 99 ron i suppose at about DM38000 in 1975 it was pretty exotic. :mrgreen:

 

[Seeker_UK]

it was pretty exotic. :mrgreen:

And now? :mrgreen:

 

[teddycatkin]

One thing nobody seems to have mentioned -Supermarkets-I have just been out and filled the runabout (Astra) with unleaded at Morrisons as I do regularly and am sure most poeple do ?simply because its closest to and cheapest--the fuel is delivered in their own tankers-so is this shell or BP -- according to Sailors answer I am in the North west so it must be Shell from Stanlow (Ellesmere Port)?

 

[MBDevotee]

It's not pinking - mine doesn't pink on 95 either - it's the fact that it can adjust to the higher octane fuel.

I certainly get 10% better fuel consumption. Perhaps it's engine specific?

 

[television]

It's not pinking - mine doesn't pink on 95 either - it's the fact that it can adjust to the higher octane fuel.

I certainly get 10% better fuel consumption. Perhaps it's engine specific?

most engines are optimized for 95 and will adjust down to 91ron, they cannot detect 98 ron or do any advancing with that.

With pinking you retards the engine

 

[Alex M Grieve]

One thing nobody seems to have mentioned -Supermarkets-I have just been out and filled the runabout (Astra) with unleaded at Morrisons as I do regularly and am sure most poeple do ?simply because its closest to and cheapest--the fuel is delivered in their own tankers-so is this shell or BP -- according to Sailors answer I am in the North west so it must be Shell from Stanlow (Ellesmere Port)?

I think almost all fuel in the UK is delivered from a limited number of depots, such as the one at Stanlow for the Northwest, Kingsholm for the Midlands and Coryton in Essex.

Various clients collect from there using vehicles in their own livery. The fuel is therefore probably generally the same for all.

The differentiating factor is the proprietary additives that the load is dosed with as the road tanker is filled - see SailorP's excellent post - and we don't know the answer to that.

So the good news is that we know the fuel is adequate from whatever source, and meets the RON spec. Trading Standards will ensure that. The bad news is that we do not know if it contains any additives/detergents, or if it has been subject to any advantageous dosing regime at the terminal.

 

[rajinder_1]

Hmmmm,
i have had fuel issues with BP once where my SL320 started a serious misfire just after filling the tank, so not all the majors are the best imo..

when the tank was drained there was a sludge like substance in the fuel, when i wrote to BP they passed it off to snax 24 who ran the garage and denied any liability, as did snax 24 saying it cant be there fuel its my car!

cut a long story short, they done nothing and even when i showed them the fuel out the car which was running fine prior it was nothing to do with them!!!

I also used to use shell and that used to cause my fuel gauge to show half a tank when it was actually full??????

i think you find what suits and whats convienient as your not going to travel 10 miles to fill up at a cheaper or better fuel source as you not gaining anything then.

I do personally feel that my car is smoother with the super unleaded but it may be just me i dont know?

anyway each to their own as lomg as the car runs with no problems it dont make any differnce
just seems to be my personal choice to use sainsburys super or texaco 95 ron makes my car feel better so i use it...

i have used Texaco Sainsbury's and Tesco and never had any issues

Raj

 

[nickcc101]

I think almost all fuel in the UK is delivered from a limited number of depots, such as the one at Stanlow for the Northwest, Kingsholm for the Midlands and Coryton in Essex.

Various clients collect from there using vehicles in their own livery. The fuel is therefore probably generally the same for all.

The differentiating factor is the proprietary additives that the load is dosed with as the road tanker is filled - see SailorP's excellent post - and we don't know the answer to that.

So the good news is that we know the fuel is adequate from whatever source, and meets the RON spec. Trading Standards will ensure that. The bad news is that we do not know if it contains any additives/detergents, or if it has been subject to any advantageous dosing regime at the terminal.

BP had a distribution terminal in Manchester (partington). If they had to pickup from Stanlow (own stock off spec etc) the fuel contained no additive as BP had no additive injection facilities at Stanlow (this changed when BP combined with Mobil who had additive at Stanlow). There are still plenty of Distribution terminals in the UK that are either railcar or pipeline fed. The Distribution Teminal in the Midlands is at Kingsbury and is pipeline fed from various Oil company Refineries. Buncefield (Hemel Hempstead) pipeline fead distribution terminal supplies most of the London area. BSI or ISO audit fuel quality compliance on a regular basis at all the major oil companies.

 

[popuptoaster]

And now? :mrgreen:

Now its just an ol' warhorse for me to charge about in.

I do love it though, funnily enough when i whack the V8 in it i can go back to using the cheap stuff.