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Black smoke on acceleration (again) S210 E320cdi

Discussion in 'Engine, Drivetrain, Fuel and Exhaust' started by Nick Wood, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. Nick Wood

    Nick Wood Active Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    S210 E320cdi 2001
    Good evening,

    I own a Merc with the 3.2 liter 6-in-line engine coded OM613 from the late 2001's era. It has about 150.000 miles on the counter which is nothing to what this engine can do. I saw them in Germany for sale with over 560.000 miles behind them, still going for 2000 good old Euro's.

    Problem:
    • Black smoke under acceleration.
    • Hesitation to accelerate from low revs. Once the turbo kicks in it's gone.

    Things I already did to this engine:
    • Took the intake manifold out and gave it a thorough clean out. Swirl flaps are free and the actuator is working fine.
    • Checked all hoses from the turbo to the intake manifold, they are fine. I did clean them out.
    • Changed the MAF which didn't make any difference.
    • Put a new thermostat in it. Needed but not necessarily related to the problem.
    • Rebuild the turbo because it was leaking oil, eventually I bought a new one. The rebuilt one didn't have a problem after all.
    • Cleaned out all injectors, I can only check whether the spray pattern is ok because I don't have a test bench.
    • Cleaned out the EGR valve, it was really soothed up.
    • Changed the fuel filter, had to be done but didn't change anything but starting up more spontaneously.
    • Changed the air filter, actually that was the first thing I did.
    • I did put in the electronic EGR bypass which is described on this forum to no avail.
    • Used injector cleaner over the last 3000 miles on every fill up.
    • Did the "Italian tuneup" like 40 times.
    • Changed the camshaft sensor.
    • Got me a diagnostic tool which didn't show any faults.
    • Changed the engine oil and filter, 3 times already.
    • Cut off the first half inch of all vacuum hoses to be sure they are tight and not loosing any vacuum.
    • I replaced the oil separator membrane.
    • whatever could have been done I did but it's still pouring out a BIG cloud of black smoke under load/kick down.

    I don't have any issues concerning power output, it doesn't go into limp mode and the kick-down works like a charm. No limitations in the rev's band, it goes up to 5500 rpm without any problem.

    I did read the 400 messages (or so) concerning this subject on this forum already and no, I don't agree to the remarks a diesel may produce black smoke and I have to live with that.

    I also read in a very wise comment in my opinion that cleaning out the EGR valve is not going to solve the problem it's giving on this specific type of engine.

    So, bear with me just one more minute here:

    Am I right to assume cleaning out the EGR doesn't always solve the problem?
    Second, there is still a chance the injectors are out of specs because I don't have the proper tools to check it?

    Am I right the EGR is the fist part to replace after all I did to the engine? Oh forgot to mention it doesn't burn any oil, the level is the same after 3000 miles although I changed it a few times.

    Please let me know, A bit of a black haze on acceleration I can live with but this is a full size black smoke screen. Until the turbo kicks in, then it's gone.

    About the EGR, I did put the electronic bypass in it and when I disconnected the EGR electrically it didn't throw any fault codes or went into limp mode, thus saying the EGR-delete which is stated on this forum worked, it just didn't solve my problem. Is it fair to draw the conclusion the EGR is stuck open?

    Just let me know your thoughts about this issue, I just want to get rid of the smoke-signs which attracts Indians thinking there is a party going on out here. Anybody out there has an Indian-smoke-sign-blanket for sale? :)

    In the meantime, thanks for reading this. If ever you got any suggestions to my statements and/or problem I would be very pleased to read them in this topic. Thank you so much in advance!

    Greetz.
    Nick.

    PS: It passed it's MOT like this.....
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
    om613 likes this.
  2. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
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    Sounds like you have massive over fuelling off boost. It would be interesting to read live data on inlet manifold pressure as it suggests fuelling is being delivered for more boost than is present.
    I'm not familiar with this engine I'm afraid (nor diesels in general really) so can't suggest a lot more. Does the HER actually work? Do you have a MAP sensor on this engine?
     
  3. OP
    Nick Wood

    Nick Wood Active Member

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    What you suggest is what I think is happening as well, so to me it makes perfect sense. I don't think there is a MAP sensor on this engine.

    I'm not familiar with the abbreviation "HER", can you please explain what you mean by that?

    To be frank, I'm not a diesel lover at all, give me any petrol engine and I can do magic to it.
     
    Welliblade likes this.
  4. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    Damned autocorrect... GET!

    Checking online it appears it does have a MAP sensor so it would be good to see the live data from it.
     
  5. OP
    Nick Wood

    Nick Wood Active Member

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    I do have the diagnostic tools to do that, I will give it a try tomorrow.

    Thank you very much for the suggestion. I'll report back with the results.
     
  6. oigle

    oigle Senior Member

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    If the EGR was stuck partly open, the smoke would be worse under boost. You say it clears under boost so shouldn't be that. If LK's suggestion doesn't bear fruit, I'd be inclined to get the injectors checked out properly.

    Ian.
     
  7. om613

    om613 Senior Member

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    The MAP is in the alloy air tube below the EGR unit.

    Easy to access, just one small Torx fastener to remove.
     
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  8. monkeh

    monkeh Active Member

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    Stab in the dark, but does this engine measure exhaust pressure? Tried the exhaust pressure sensor? I'm not on about the one that measures the DPF pressure. I'm on about this one. Genuine-Exhaust-Pressure-Sensor-For-Mercedes-ML.jpg

    Sorry my knowledge on this engine is non existent.
     
  9. oigle

    oigle Senior Member

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    I thought about a blocked exhaust too but that would get worse with higher flows under boost and it seems that is not the case.

    Ian.
     
  10. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    Oh FFS... EGR!
     
  11. Steve@Avantgarde

    Steve@Avantgarde Forum Supporter Authorised Forum Supporter

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    I would get it on STAR to start with. Actual values can test things like the MAP sensor and see if anything else is running out of spec.
     
  12. OP
    Nick Wood

    Nick Wood Active Member

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    Well, I did a live test today, I don't have STAR but a Delphi diagnostic tool. Sure enough the Delphi doesn't allow me to read the MAP-sensor. On top of that I can read the total amount of diesel which is burned but not from every specific injector.

    What I do have is this:

    Under load is at 35 seconds in the graphs, between 40 and 45 seconds it's measured in "P" so I revved it without any load. As far as I can read the graphs there is nothing wrong.

    Maybe somebody who's got more experience with diesel engines can shine a different light on the matter.

    [​IMG]

    PS: I found the MAP sensor but I can't read the values using the Delphi diagnostic tool.

    Am I right to assume the EGR valve is working properly? I do think so.
     
  13. OP
    Nick Wood

    Nick Wood Active Member

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    Forgot to mention the exhaust is brand new, from the turbo up to the rear bumper. No, there are no sensors in it.
     
  14. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    We're coming to France weekend after next for a week - I'll see if I can squeeze the STAR in if you want to pop down and see if we can get anything useful out of it?
     
  15. oigle

    oigle Senior Member

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    You said you installed the EGR shunt successfully and yet you are getting egr readouts....something not right there.

    Ian.
     
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  16. umblecumbuz

    umblecumbuz Senior Member

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    Surely the purpose of the shunt is to fool the ecu into accepting normal egr activity.
    If so, a scanner would also be fooled by seeing egr activity even if there was none.

    The egr readings above would in that case be false.
     
  17. OP
    Nick Wood

    Nick Wood Active Member

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    @LostKiwi:
    That would be absolutely great!

    Ian & Umble, I took the bypass out again. That's why I got readings from the EGR. I want to find the real problem first and I think it's in the way getting proper readings.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
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  18. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    Ok - can hopefully squeeze it in.... (my other half has a propensity to fill the car to the brim every time we come over!)
     
  19. bob 6600

    bob 6600 Senior Member

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    The injectors could be spraying a correct pattern but way too much fuel hence overfuelling = black smoke.

    You seem to have eliminated the coked up EGR scenario and you do not have limp mode.
     
  20. OP
    Nick Wood

    Nick Wood Active Member

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    LostKiwi, just be sure you put it in before your wife starts packing. Hahahahaaa!

    Bob, you are absolutely right. I hoped somebody could tell me if the amount of fuel injected (last graph) was within specs.
    I do get good mileage out of it though, best I've seen was around 42mpg doing 60 on the cruise control.
     

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