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Black smoke on acceleration (again) S210 E320cdi

Discussion in 'Engine, Drivetrain, Fuel and Exhaust' started by Nick Wood, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. OP
    Nick Wood

    Nick Wood Active Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    S210 E320cdi 2001
    This afternoon I went to meet LostKiwi, somewhere in the middle of nowhere of SW-France, to get the stubborn diesel on the STAR machine. After a lovely cup of coffee we started to get the STAR equipment hooked up, started the software and found some faults right away which are not showing up on my Delphi tool. Not very many though, the ones we got were mostly related to other things but the engine.

    After digging in deeper, when we started the live-data option in the software, there were two things that attracted our attention:
    • Injector 2 had a quite high reading.
    • At idle the fuel pressure valve was reading low. According to the description about 25% to low (around 6cc instead of the minimum of 8).
    • The reading of the mass airflow meter was out of spec as well. We soon ruled that as being caused by the things mentioned above.

    We played around a bit with the injector first, it was the only one which is brand new! As I mentioned before in this topic I cleaned the other 5 but the 2nd one was beyond any repair so I ordered a new one. STAR documentation states an injector is out of spec if it reads more than 5cc/M, this one was on the high limit. Another thing the documentation told us is the injector has to be mapped to the engine. Since I selected to buy this one, because it has exactly the same numbers written on it as the old one, I figured it to be alright. We tried to switch it to class 1 instead of class 2 which immediately brought the high reading down to the middle of the scale. Switched the class back to what it's supposed to be and it became even better. Now reading around 2cc/M it's still higher as the other 5 which are around and about 1cc/M but it's well within specs.

    The only explanation I can give is the old injector messed up the adaptive values in the ECU, by giving the new injector temporarily a class 1 value it stabilized at about normal. Actually we had to clear the adaptive values all together but we didn't know what all would be affected by that. When, for instance, I do that to my BMW 7-series I have to "re-learn" the throttle body where to find it's idle point in the drive by wire system. We didn't want to go into unknown areas.

    The only thing which was not going to budge was the fuel pressure valve, did a reset of the faults it gave to no avail.

    As for the MAF, that's a brand new one so I have confidence once the fuel pressure issue is solved it will give normal readings.

    Conclusion, I'll have to buy a new pressure valve. On the other hand all logic is lost, black smoke you'll expect when there is to much fuel injected, not when it's reading low. Anyway, we had a lovely time sorting all of this out.

    Thank you very much LostKiwi! I enjoyed it, on top of that you are a very friendly and helpful person! Next time you're in France and the weather is nice I invite you to a BBQ at our place.

    I'll keep this topic alive and report back when the new pressure valve is installed.
     
    om613 likes this.
  2. star

    star Forum Supporter Authorised Forum Supporter

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    Have you checked the basics like vac lines to egr, vac tested the egr, these can fail midway thru operation and both vac transducers as these affect egr operation too
     
  3. Taffy7hfa

    Taffy7hfa Senior Member

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    Euro 3 diesels will chuff sometimes, that's why were now on euro 6 ?
    if it starts quickly, pulls well, isn't burning lots of oil and is giving somewhere near the original mpg, there's
    probably nothing wrong with it.
     
  4. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    T
    There's definitely something not right - the smoke screen it lays down would be the envy of any WW2 destroyer captain!
     
    Arudge and Nick Wood like this.
  5. om613

    om613 Senior Member

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    You should be seeing nearer to high 40s under those conditions.

    I've got the full injection system up for spares, cheap. If you need any parts.
    I'm done with the 613...!
     
  6. OP
    Nick Wood

    Nick Wood Active Member

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    Yes I did, like 3 times. Even cut off the ends of the vacuum hoses to make a snug fit.

    It runs perfect, pulls like a tractor on steroids, it's not burning oil and runs a decent mpg for a 3.2 liter diesel having a pretty sporty drive-style. (heavy right foot if you like).

    Absolutely! :D

    Well, I'm not that good at converting kilometers per liter to miles per gallon, I'll search for a converter on the internet...

    Just did, it turns out to be almost 50 mpg.

    Yes, I do need a part, maybe even more. Send me a personal message, what price would you sell the fuel pressure regulator for and how much for the complete system? The injectors I have seem to be in pretty good shape though.

    Done with the OM613? You're not the only one !!:(

    Give me any petrol engine and I can do magic to it, diesels are not my cup of tea. The more I know about them the more I hate them. That's beside the agricultural factor about diesels. Fact is we don't have any road tax in France, no congestion tax and what have you. That's the only reason I went for a diesel engine instead of a petrol one. It was meant to be our donkey, pulling my 2.3 tons trailer and doing the heavy work, now I'm not so sure anymore. There is just no substitute for a big petrol fed V8. Not as cheap to run but so much more sophisticated.

    Having said that I want to sell it, one thing I respect is I don't want to sell a car which has a problem of whatever kind. So it has to be perfect before I put it up for sale. There are enough cars for sale that have problems about which "they" keep their mouths shut, I definitely don't want to be one of those sellers.

    Next car can very well be an S-class, I always was (and still am) fascinated by those but didn't have one yet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
    om613 likes this.
  7. star

    star Forum Supporter Authorised Forum Supporter

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    What about drawing a vac on the egr itself? And the egr and turbo transducers can play up.
     
  8. om613

    om613 Senior Member

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    OK NIck, I'll send you a pm.
     
  9. om613

    om613 Senior Member

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    Oh, seems that I haven't worked out how to do, that with the recent changes.

    Can you see how to PM me?
     
  10. Steve@Avantgarde

    Steve@Avantgarde Forum Supporter Authorised Forum Supporter

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    I've never known a failed injector to cause black smoke....white smoke definitely, but not black smoke, thats an incorrect air mix. As Ian has said, you have boost/air mix issue.

    Think of it this way, what does a stunt plane burn to create a vapour trail, like the red arrows for example? It's diesel with a colour dye. It doesn't burn air. Air needs fuel to create a smoke, anything that is black is byproduct, usually soot.

    Same principal applies to the air/fuel mix of your diesel engine.
     
    star likes this.
  11. OP
    Nick Wood

    Nick Wood Active Member

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    Hello all, I'll try to answer all the last posts.

    @ Star, Absolutely, but it's got a brand new turbo and all vacuum lines and devises are checked. I did put in 2 new vacuum hoses and cut the ends off of the rest to get a tight fit. The EGR is working as it should, took the thing apart and cleaned it out. After that (you can read the graphs I put in this topic earlier from the diagnostic tool) it works fine.

    OM613, I'll start a personal (or private ) conversation, A phenomena like a Personal Message is not available as such.

    Steve, It's not the injector, actually it was just within spec. After manipulating the settings the injector adjusted itself, the adaptive values which we didn't reset threw it way out of line. Now it's well within specs so actually no problem at all.

    Your thoughts of what the cause of the black smoke could be is absolutely correct in my mind. Finding the solution in a system that's controlled by an ECU and multiple sensors is not that easy. Anyway, since I don't have the right tools to read all the values and act accordingly it's a gamble. It was not a gamble anymore when we interpreted the values the STAR system was giving us, the fuel pressure valve is far out of specs and the first one to change. I ordered one today, brand new for like 56 quit.
     
  12. OP
    Nick Wood

    Nick Wood Active Member

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    Well, replaced the Fuel Pressure Regulator with a brand new one but nothing changed. This engine is starting to irritate me and I'm thinking about selling it. It's not an MOT failure because it had MOT's before and the emissions where spot on.

    I tried to drive it with the LMM disconnected, because I read somewhere it would take care of a big part of the smoke, to no avail. It still smokes. Only thing is it is lacking power big time so I hooked the LMM up again which instantly gave me all power back.

    There were no other faults when we diagnosed it with STAR concerning the engine so I'm lost now.
     
  13. Steve@Avantgarde

    Steve@Avantgarde Forum Supporter Authorised Forum Supporter

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    I told you it wasn't a fuel issue, but an air issue.

    The symptoms do not match for a fueling fault.
     
    star likes this.
  14. OP
    Nick Wood

    Nick Wood Active Member

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    Right, at the time it was the only thing STAR was spitting out so I went with that.

    Can you point me in the right direction? Please!!?? If you already did I agree I'm stupid not to read what you wrote and act accordingly.

    I already checked all hoses from the turbo to the intake manifold, cleaned them and there are no leaks. Did a turbo rebuild and eventually I put in a brand new one just to be sure. Changed the air filter and cleaned out the intake manifold, swirl flaps work fine, no issues with the actuator or sticky flaps, bought a brand new Mass Airflow Meter and made sure the air intake to the filter is not blocked up. Cleaned out the EGR and checked for proper actuation, checked all vacuum hoses and took the ends off to have a snug fit. What else is there what I might have missed?
     
  15. oigle

    oigle Senior Member

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    Cleaning out the EGR does not guarantee proper operation. They can still stick a little open due to wear marks on the piston. If they stick even a little open, that will cause heaps of black smoke under boost.

    Ian.
     
  16. Wighty

    Wighty Senior Member

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    Just been reading the thread , have you got it sorted yet ?
     
  17. ajlsl600

    ajlsl600 Senior Member

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    low rpm air fuel mix. seems like yr not getting enough air until the turbo wakes up. low rpm fuelling incorrect,sensor,sensors reading that info not right ,providing wrong data. air leak in intake system upstream of turbo that is mitigated somewhat when turbo spinning well , would have thought you would hear that if was the case tho .
     
  18. MarcBG

    MarcBG New Member

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    Hey there, fellow om613 owner, with the exact same black smoke issue as Nick Wood.. (Yes, I am aware this thread is from 2017)

    And the exact same troubleshooting & fixes conducted as the OP.. When I read through this thread, it's as if the OP was writing about my car.. needless to say I am just as put off the om613 by now too..

    Any updates on this issue by any chance? Did you finally manage to pin-point the culprit?

    As a last attempt I took the car to my nearest MB dealer for them to diagnose and was told all catalytic converters, refering to the one after the turbo and the secondaries, are clogged and want £2000 to replace them (not happening. will clean them thoroughly and even bypass if necessary to rule them out...). They also mentioned the vacuum pressure transducers/electrovalves are not operating properly, so I will replace them too and report back.

    I insisted whether the EGR valve was 100% fine, and not sticking open, but they were absolutely certain EGR is working normally.

    Last but not least the injector on cylinder 4 is reporting a "low" reading on star diagnosis (-1mm3/HUB) which I will also replace. This was also mentioned by the dealer but again have a feeling this will not sort out the black smoke issue.

    Please, if anyone has got any suggestions, or has been in the same situation as me and the OP, I'd really appreciate hearing from you.

    Cheers
     
    om613 likes this.
  19. MarcBG

    MarcBG New Member

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    Quick update:

    A combination of removing the air filter (was getting MAF Plausibility 1 code in Star Diag. That was a new air filter too, but the manufacturer is "Mann", not an original MB part.. hope that's why it was showing up a code..) and bypassing the EGR Vacuum Transducer have made me regain a little hope in this car. The black smoke is pretty much gone. But the car is now putting out noticeable amounts of white/greyish smoke under heavy acceleration, which has got me thinking whether one or more injectors are indeed at fault.. I'll post back any new findings :)
     
  20. oigle

    oigle Senior Member

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    Did you clean out your cats? Blocked cats will certainly cause smoke.
     

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